Putting tenses together

Tiffany   Tuesday, November 16, 2004, 19:19 GMT
It's ok, yes, we all know what it means, but I think it's usage is awkward and not something I would say. I'd say "I recommended it to Ms. B".
languidMandala   Tuesday, November 16, 2004, 19:34 GMT
The answer is to do with time. Consider:
"Last week we went to a department store. We bought many things."
Here the second sentence is clearly occurring in the same time frame as the first sentence.

However:
"Last week we went to a department store. We have bought many things."
As Mxsmanic says this is either incorrect because the tense does not agree with the first sentence or confusing because we now have no idea when or where you bought many things.

Lastly:
"Last week we went to a department store. We bought many things. I have recommended them to Ms B."
The third sentence here is OK because the change in tense allows the reader to assume that you made the recommendation after you had been at the store.
Here the tenses are doing exactly the job that they are intended to do: separating events in time.
Steve K   Tuesday, November 16, 2004, 22:17 GMT
Shun,

What gives you the presumption to assume that native speakers do not know "why" they can use both "have recommended it" or "recommended it". "Have recommended " implies an earlier time, a sense of "all ready".

You should concern yourself with your own poor ability in English. You did not add in the "it" even after being corrected. You are more intent on trying to be clever than on improving your English. The result is that often you do not make sense in English.

If you want to improve stop asking irrelevant questions. Use the "recommended " form and after you see the "have recommended" form used often enough you will sense when you can use it. All the rules will not help you.
saya   Wednesday, November 17, 2004, 05:22 GMT
Shun

I myself am an English learner but I think you'd better avoid mixing tenses except in the case you think you need to do so. Otherwise your readers will get confused.

Speaking about your example EX-5, you have to put something as an object of "recommended" (recommend is a transitive verb);
(Ex-6) ...."Last week we went to a store department and bought many things. I have recommended <them> to Ms B."
I take this to mean you bought some things at a past time and you recommended Ms B to buy them at any time during the period from that past time until now.

saya
Shun   Wednesday, November 17, 2004, 06:51 GMT

> What gives you the presumption to assume that
> native speakers do not know "why" they can use
> both "have recommended it" or "recommended it".
> "Have recommended " implies an earlier time, a
> sense of "all ready".
>
My reply: Tenses are used to tell the time relations between sentences. If this is true, as revealed in these few examples, those grammar books are wrong in using only one sentence to explain a tense. If you want to see and then believe, open your grammar books and you know.
Shun   Wednesday, November 17, 2004, 06:58 GMT
LanguidMandala, you are very correct.
I couldn't explain better than you did.
Shun   Wednesday, November 17, 2004, 07:02 GMT
Saya,

You are correct, I have forgot to add IT, rather than THEM, behind Recommend.
(Ex-6) ...."Last week we went to a store department and bought many things. I have recommended <it> to Ms B."
Steve K   Wednesday, November 17, 2004, 13:37 GMT
Shun,
You will never be a comfortable speaker of foreign languages. You are what is known in German a "besser wisser" and in Cantonese as "lan lek"
Shun   Thursday, November 18, 2004, 10:51 GMT
Steve K,

I am sorry you say this in a discussion forum, no matter you have a better explanation or not.
Shun   Thursday, November 18, 2004, 10:59 GMT
languidMandala wrote:
Lastly:
"Last week we went to a department store. We bought many things. I have recommended them to Ms B."
The third sentence here is OK because the change in tense allows the reader to assume that you made the recommendation after you had been at the store.
Here the tenses are doing exactly the job that they are intended to do: separating events in time.

==============

I agree with the above. But what if we say the following?

"Last week we went to a department store. We bought many things. I have recommended them to Ms B. But Ms B said she knows the store."

Is SAID not grammatical or it means it is in the same time frame of Last Week?
Tiffany   Thursday, November 18, 2004, 21:05 GMT
That sentence sounds wrong to me, Shun. I would use "says" in place of said. Of course, I would not continue to use "have recommended" either, as it sounds awkward, but if I did hypothetically use "have recommended, the following sentence would be in present tense because it is ABOUT the recommendation Ms B (which is also in present tense ie. have recommended).

By the way, if it is the STORE you recommended to Ms. B , use the pronoun "it" and not "them".


I would say: "Last week we went to the department store. We bought many things. I recommended it to Ms. B, but she said she knew the store."

I might also say: "Last week we went to the department store. We bought many things. I recommended it to Ms. B, but she said she knows the store."

I think this would infer present knowledge - as in, I said this to her (past action), this is what she told me and I am telling you that in the present, she knows the store and it is a progressive action - she will contine to know the store.
Shun   Friday, November 19, 2004, 06:18 GMT
> That sentence sounds wrong to me, Shun.
> I would use "says" in place of said.
>

You seemed first to have agreed to use "says", but very soon you change your mind. Can you list the situation when we use "says"?
Mi5 Mick   Friday, November 19, 2004, 06:32 GMT
"I have recommended them to Ms B but Ms B says she knows the store."
or
"I recommended them to Ms B but Ms B said she knew the store."
Mi5 Mick   Friday, November 19, 2004, 06:40 GMT
By the way, I was demonstrating when to use "says" over "said".
Tiffany   Friday, November 19, 2004, 16:45 GMT
Shun, my answer is the same as Mi5 Mick. Look at his two sentences. I did not change my mind.

If you want to use "have recommended" you must use "says" and not "said" as you used.

However the point I was trying to make what that I would not use "have recommended", I would use the second sentence in Mi5 Mick's post in which he uses "recommended".