Romance Languages

nico = so i guess we can say creole ia s romance language "

Creole means more of a West Indian of European descent or Caribbean who is descended from French settlers and is not labeled a "Romance language"

Dragon,


I know creole is not included as a romance language. Are there different dreoles?

The creole includes some spanish, portuguese and french words, doesn't it?

Crioulo means BLACK in Brazilian Portuguese.
Synonimous with NEGRO (which is neutral term; but PRETO[black] is an insult, meaning NEGRO in English)

nico, creoles are generally not grouped together genetically with any other language, except for being grouped together as "creoles". Part of this is that creoles tend to be very similar on a grammatical level, no matter what their parent languages happen to be, as they're usually highly analytic and have quite simple grammar (simple in a way that most natural languages, even analytic ones, are not). Due to their nature, they tend to be better grouped together typologically than to bother to try to group them genetically in any given fashion.

Travis,

I have read there were some african and european influences especially spanish and french patois.
"kodenn", le "coq d'Inde" du centre de la France.
"vakabon" issu de l'ancien français (16e siècle) avec sa signification première de "mauvais sujet et de voyou"
"misé" originaire de l'ouest de la France veut bien dire "ne pas se presser, prendre son temps" alors qu'il est compris aujourd'hui dans le sens de "parier".

And many terms from navigation

Of course i don't know anything about creole; i am not a specialist.

I have heard some haïtian creole and i understood sometimes a few french expression...

>>Juan Pablo Saturday, April 30, 2005, 18:11 GMT
What's wrong with you Slavic commies ?...Any inferiority complex ? Leave our Latin small sister alone...

Go to your Russian daddy, drink your vodka and sing the "perestroika"...LOL <<

Y tu te puedes ir a la mierda de tu venerado Generalisimo y Caudillo y comertela mientras estas alli.

To all other Spanish speakers out there: my apologies, I just couldn't resist cussing at this nationalistic creep.

Regarding the Generalísimo and Caudillo I couldn't agree more. It's funny how all this people will tell you they aren't nationalist and that you are the onlu nationalist around. The sad thing about all this is that there isn't a single culture in the world, no matter where, no matter when, that hasn't given the world something unique to share. The problem is when invaders don't want to share and only want to impose.

nico, yes, African influences are quite significant in some creoles in the Americas, due to many of the speakers of said creoles being descended from slaves who were brought from West Africa, and who brought their languages with them, which influenced said creoles. Additionally, there were European influences on creoles in the Americas besides direct European language contact, due to contact with pigdin languages that were already in use by /Europeans/, in particular contact with a Portuguese variant of the Mediterrean pigdin/creole referred to as "lingua franca", which was used by many sailors during the colonial period, and not just by Portuguese ones either (because other sailors and like ended up learning and using it as well, to communicate with others who already knew said pigdin/creole).

I read that in the Middle Ages some Atlantic fishermen developed a Basque-Icelandic (yes, you read that right!) creole. I'd love to find out more about that language.

A pidgin was also formed between Russian and Norwegian as well, but that's not nearly as bizarre as a Basque-Icelandic pidgin.

Speaking of creole, does anybody know what dialect this poem is written in? Yes, I know it's Spanish, but the bizarre words lead me to believe that it's some creolised form of Spanish.

El Cuervo

Aqui na Australia yo ya encontra,
mucho cosa que yo ta admira.

Fresco ambiente flores pintoresco,
pajaro cantor, casa de ladrillo,
Y tierra bella.

Desde ya llega yo, el pajaro negro
ta canta mientras ta vula.

Cada mañana mucho ta posa na techo,
na mga rama masqui na veranda.

Si ilos ta baja, alrededor ta mira
y ta miña el cabeza.

Como tiene ta busca y siguro
ta saluda numas con el nuevo visita.

Ademas de este, maravilloso cantor,
ta gusta tambien yo el arbol de Jacaranda
con flores azul-lila.

Na rama de este . . . siempre ta posa
el mga pajaro que ta trai sin igual alegria.

Marlena :

that's Chabacano from The Philipines. Check this : http://www.rogersantos.org/poemas.html

Thanks, Rui. Very interesting.

Nothing special except saving that thread about Romance languages. This is the same text written in various Romance languages (including two French creoles). Three figures : number of words (24 to 46), number of letters (131 to 193), number of letters per word (3,9 to 6,8). English version : antepenultimate text (followed by Dutch and German versions). Language names aren’t given : up to you to find out.

Considerante que le recognoscentia del dignitate inherente a tote le membros del familia human e de lor derectos equal e inalienabile constitue le fundamento del libertate, del justitia e del pace in le mundo,
34 words – 174 letters – 5,1 letters per word in average

Konsiderante ke agnosko dil inheranta digneso e dil egala e netransferebla yuri di omna membri di la familio homal es la fundamento di libereso, yusteso e paco en la mondo,
30 – 141 – 4,7

Omnium humanae gentis partium perspecto et cognito consensum fidemque propriae dignitatis atque iurium, quae omni tempore aequa et paria esse debent nec alienari possunt, totius terrae libertatis iustitiae pacis esse initium,
31 – 193 – 6,2

Cum dignitatis infixae omnibus humanae familiae partibus et eorum jurum aequalium, quae abalienari non possunt, agnitio constituat et in orbe terrarum libertatis et justitiae et pacis fundamentum,
27 – 168 – 6,2

Considerato che il riconoscimento della dignità inerente a tutti i membri della famiglia umana e dei loro diritti, uguali ed inalienabili, costituisce il fondamento della libertà, della giustizia e della pace nel mondo,
33 – 183 – 5,5

Tignût cont che il ricognossi la dignitât di ducj i membris de gjernazie umane, i lôr derits, compagns e inalienabii, e je la fonde de libertât, de justizie e de pâs tal mont,
33 – 138 – 4,2

Cunsidarendu ch'ellu ci voli à ricunnoscia a dignità propria di tutti i membri di a famiglia umana è i so diritti pari ed inalienabili par ch'elli sianu fundati a libertà, a ghjustizia è a paci ind'u mondu,
37 – 168 – 4,5

Cunsiderende chi su reconnoschimentu de sa dinnidade inerente a totu sos membros de sa famìlia umana e de sos deretos issoro eguales e inalienàbiles costìtuit su fundamentu de sa libertade, de sa zustìssia e de sa paghe in su mundu,
40 – 191 – 4,8

Considerando que o reconhecimento da dignidade inerente a todos os membros da família humana e dos seus direitos iguais e inalienáveis constitui o fundamento da liberdade, da justiça e da paz no mundo,
33 – 167 – 5,1

A liberdade, a xustiza e a paz no mundo teñen por base o recoñecemento da dignidade intrínseca e dos dereitos iguais e inalienables de tódolos membros da familia humana,
29 – 140 – 4,8

Considerando que la libertad, la justicia y la paz en el mundo tienen por base el reconocimiento de la dignidad intrínseca y de los derechos iguales e inalienables de todos los miembros de la familia humana,
36 – 171 – 4,8

Considerante ce la reconose de la dinia inerente e la diretos egal e nonalienable de tota la membros de la familia umana es la funda de libria, justia, e pas in la mundo,
33 – 138 – 4,2

Considerant que el reconeixement de la dignitat inherent i dels drets iguals i inalienables de tots els membres de la família humana és el fonament de la llibertat, la justícia i la pau en el món,
36 – 159 – 4,4

Considerant que de reconéisser la dignitat inerenta a totes los membres de la familha umana e lors dreches egals e inalienables constituís lo fondament de la libertat, de la justícia e de la patz dins lo mond,
37 – 171 – 4,6

Considérant que la reconnaissance de la dignité inhérente à tous les membres de la famille humaine et de leurs droits égaux et inaliénables constitue le fondement de la liberté, de la justice et de la paix dans le monde,
39 – 180 – 4,6

Lè nou konsidere ke, paske yo rekonèt ke diyite ki nan nannan tout moun ak dwa egal ego yo ki pa sa van, se baz epi inaliénables constitue le fondement de la libète, de la jistis epi deak lapè nan le mond entye,
43 – 166 – 3,9

Lè nou sonje ke desizyon rekonèt valè chak moun genyen nan li menm-menm kòm moun, desizyon rekonèt tout moun gen menm dwa egalego, dwa pèsonn pa ka wete nan men yo, desizyon sa a se veritab baz libète, veritab baz lajistis ak lapè sou tè a,
46 – 190 – 4,1

En pezâ que couvenï de là dïneto lïjadà bei ta la proussouna de là famïlhà ome é de lhu dret parer moé dezeutruver solà là lïbiarto, là jutïssà moé là poé pà là tarà,
34 – 131 – 3,9

Qui l'fondemint dè-l'lîbèté, dè-l djustice èt dè-l'påye tot-avå l'monde, c'èst l'rik'nohnance dè-l'dignité qu'èst l'prôpe di tos lès-omes èt dès dreûts égâls qu'ils ont èt qu'on n'èlzi pout mèskeure,
28 – 170 – 6,1

Considèrant qui l' rèspèt dèl dignité, qu'apartint sorlon l' nateûre a tos lès-omes so l' tére, èt d' leûs dreûts égåls, qu'on n' såreût 'lzî mèskeûre, c'èst l' fondemint dèl lîberté, dèl djustice èt dèl påye è monde ètîr,
39 – 179 – 4,6

Considerînd c&#259; recunoa&#351;terea demnit&#259;&#355;ii inerente tuturor membrilor familiei umane &#351;i a drepturilor lor egale &#351;i inalienabile constituie fundamentul libert&#259;&#355;ii, drept&#259;&#355;ii &#351;i p&#259;cii în lume,
24 – 162 – 6,8

Pro tio, ke agnosko de la esenca digno kaj de la egalaj kaj nefordoneblaj rajtoj de &#265;iuj membroj de la homara familio estas la fundamento de libero, justo kaj paco en la mondo,
33 – 142 – 4,3

Whereas recognition of the inherent dignity and of the equal and inalienable rights of all members of the human family is the foundation of freedom, justice and peace in the world,
31 – 148 – 4,8

Overwegende, dat erkenning van de inherente waardigheid en van de gelijke en onvervreemdbare rechten van alle leden van de mensengemeenschap grondslag is voor de vrijheid, gerechtigheid en vrede in de wereld,
31 – 176 – 5,7

Da die Anerkennung der angeborenen Würde und der gleichen und unveräußerlichen Rechte aller Mitglieder der Gemeinschaft der Menschen die Grundlage von Freiheit, Gerechtigkeit und Frieden in der Welt bildet,
29 – 176 – 6,1