latinos

Kirk   Friday, June 03, 2005, 04:28 GMT
<<¿How long did you lived in Argentina and where?>>

Unfortunately, not long enough...I fell in love with Argentina in the four months I spent there studying abroad. I lived in Buenos Aires (with an Argentine host mom). I also traveled to various parts of the country, including the north (as in Tilcara/Humahuaca and Jujuy/Salta), the west (Mendoza, Aconcagua, etc), and the northeast (Iguazu), besides various places in the province of Buenos Aires and the many suburbs in the. I traveled by bus so I saw many other parts in between. I also spent some time in Uruguay (Colonia, Montevideo, Punta del Diablo, Chui...I crossed to the Brazilian side, too, for a few hours, so I guess I can say I've been to Brazil).

<<It takes years to understand a country... and I am not saying there is not racism, as long as we live a time where it's some kind of epidemy. But there are differences between racism, xenophobia and local expressions.>>

I completely agree it takes years to understand a country, altho I believe I was able to understand some core things (at least on the surface) after my several months in Argentina. I also understand there are some differences between racism, xenophobia, and local expressions. That's a very good point. What I was referring to were deeper things like attitudes I saw in society as a whole, as well as individual people such as Argentine acquaitances, professors, and friends.

Anyway, thanks for your comments :) What part of Argentina are you from? I miss it a lot.
Elaine   Friday, June 03, 2005, 06:47 GMT
I understand what you mean, Kirk. I have a good friend who's from Argentina. He's very sharp and an overall great guy, but a couple of times he had made offhand remarks about Mexicans and their nature that were downright racist. Of course, me being of Mexican descent, I was taken aback and called him up on it. But he failed to see what the problem was. To him stating that Mexicans were such as such was as natural and agreeable as stating that the sky is blue. I chalked to up to cultural differences in what we deem appropriate, but I advised him to keep his comments to himself.

Of course, I'm not making any snap judgements about Argentines based on one person's comments, but based on what you say from your experiences, I can see why my friend thought I was making much ado about nothing.
Kirk   Friday, June 03, 2005, 07:32 GMT
<<But he failed to see what the problem was. To him stating that Mexicans were such as such was as natural and agreeable as stating that the sky is blue...my friend thought I was making much ado about nothing.>>

Thanks for your comment, Elaine. That's exactly one of the things I was talking about in terms of what is not acceptable at least in the US. In my experience in Argentina those types of offhand comments were commonly said by many, as if they were the most natural and undisputed thing in the world.

Like you said, I want to emphasize again I'm not necessarily criticizing Argentines as a whole but having lived there, and being a foreigner who was pretty well immersed in the culture (I didn't live with Americans, my classes were in Spanish, and I'm fluent in Spanish so I was able to make good Argentine friends and not need to worry if they knew English), I feel I have a somewhat unique position at looking at the society from different eyes.

In turn, I saw the US in new eyes when I returned, and one of the things I noticed is that we're very concerned with what others may see as excessive "political correctness," something most Americans would never admit they espoused, yet many of our basic ideas, concepts, and ideals (which admittedly don't always go fulfilled) are concerned with the rights and feelings of others in a way that others might deem as overly "politically correct." I decided this brand of "North American political correctness" wasn't necessarily a bad thing when it's not just for show and you're actually trying to look out for and be sensitive and respectful towards the rights, needs, and feelings of others, even if it means restricting yourself somewhat and watching your mouth (and hopefully, unspoken attitudes, which are ultimately just as or even more important).
Lucas   Friday, June 03, 2005, 07:56 GMT
Taking "pride" that they are mostly of European extraction, or so we're led to believe, has seriously messed with their head and done irreparable damage to their self-esteem. The poor things at a loss to explain their current predicament since them being "whiter" than any country around them should automatically make Argentina the richest and most powerful nation in South America. In their heads they can't reconcile the fact that it doesn't work that way and that's when they go into a meltdown.

This article put it nicely:

http://www.bizjournals.com/sanantonio/stories/2002/02/25/editorial1.html

" When the head of state asked me about my next destination and I replied it was Argentina, he immediately retorted: "Oh! You are going to a nation with such an inferiority complex that it feels superior."

How true that quote is.
Lucas   Friday, June 03, 2005, 08:10 GMT
"Latino" is another misnomer. Most people called "Latinos" in the United States are actually Native American peoples: Aztecs, Tarascans, Tainos, Chibchans, Incas etc. and have arrived in the country only in the last 30 or 40 years. They speak Spanish because Spanish Conquistadors conquered their ancestors in the sixteenth century. "



That sounds to pat and trite. In Mexico and other "Latin" American nations there is a "racial" continuum and people can not be easily separated and divided and be said to being this and that. Mexico is such an ambiguous "racial" nation when the Iberians forcibly became part of their history and almost exterminated their entire populations already present there when they used the diseases they carried with them as a type of chemical warfare.
Travis   Friday, June 03, 2005, 08:18 GMT
Lucas, well, to be a pedant, the conquistadores didn't deliberately use said diseases as a form of chemical warfare; that part was primarily incidental, as much as one may want to believe otherwise, all things considered.
Dora   Friday, June 03, 2005, 16:08 GMT
Kirk,
I was born at the Andes, right next to Chile.
Paul   Friday, June 03, 2005, 18:22 GMT
<<People often don't appreciate how good we have it in the U.S. until they visit another country. In fact, you don't have to go to a third world country to get a hint of this. Whenever have gone to Canada, I have noticed that the roads are not as good there as they are in the U.S., there are fewer restaurants and dining spots, even bathrooms and drinking fountains are more scarce.>>

As a Canadian, who has been to several US states, I find this inaccurate and insulting.

The roads here (except for montreal maybe) are no worse than any US city with similarily cold winters. Freeze thaw cycles wreak havoc on roads, and do not allow for concrete driving surfaces. Major Canadian cities are definately on par with the US for restaurants. I've also noticed that the lower priced Canadian restaurants and fast food joints tend to be much cleaner - including the bathrooms.
Sander   Friday, June 03, 2005, 18:32 GMT
=>People often don't appreciate how good we have it in the U.S. until they visit another country<=

Why visite another country?You can go to one of the major cities and ask the homeless...Or ask someone who lives below the poverty line (they arrent hard to find) or think about the fact that you don't have a 'cradle to grave' social system (do you even have a social system BTW?!) Ive been to a number of countries and i can tell you...you can learn a lot of most of them.
Georgette, Reims, France   Saturday, June 04, 2005, 01:08 GMT
Why do you people place a Spanish question mark in an English sentence?
Brennus   Saturday, June 04, 2005, 07:17 GMT
Paul,

I assure you that I am an honest person and what I said about Canadian living standards is the truth. Don't try to contrive it to mean that I am insulting Canadians. That's very knee-jerk, very short-sighted. I think Canada has its good points too. For example, there are still lower crime rates in Canada than the U.S; Canadians on average, are better educated than Americans; Canada's public healthcare system is more fair than America's in some ways.

Nevertheless, have you ever looked at the big picture and asked yourself why more Canadians immigrate to the U.S. rather than the other way around? I have seen even the number of French Canadian names in the Seattle and Tacoma phone books quadruple in the past 40 years. There are now French Canadian names in the phone books of Salt Lake City, Phoenix and Denver where as there were probably almost none 40 years ago.

While there has been much talk about the number of Mexicans entering the United States, more of Canada's people want to live here too. It could be that it's getting harder to live there and that many Canadians feel that any advantages to living in the U.S outweigh the disadvantages.
hehe   Saturday, June 04, 2005, 07:33 GMT
=>Why visite another country?You can go to one of the major cities and ask the homeless...Or ask someone who lives below the poverty line (they arrent hard to find) or think about the fact that you don't have a 'cradle to grave' social system (do you even have a social system BTW?!) Ive been to a number of countries and i can tell you...you can learn a lot of most of them.<=

There is poverty and homelessness in every major city of the world. The best social systems have never fixed that issue.
Someone   Saturday, June 04, 2005, 07:47 GMT
I just can't understand why there are so many serial criminals in the US ?

why there are so many criminals /capita ?
peter   Saturday, June 04, 2005, 07:51 GMT
I think "the criminals" are a genetic thing, even despite their drastic methods to stop them(capital punishment)...The USA is still NO1 in the world of crime...
bernard   Saturday, June 04, 2005, 10:38 GMT
" why more Canadians immigrate to the U.S. rather than the other way around? "

It is very simple to understand ; the climate is much more better in USA than in Canada (espacially in the south). For exemple there is a huge french Canadian community in south Florida. most of them are retired people who preder to finish their life in a hot and sunny place thatn in the cold Canadaian winters.
I've been living in Montreal a few years ago. When I went to new-york I've experimented the gasp between both countries. It is amazing to see How much cleaner and more secure Montreal is in comparision with NYC.