CringeFest 8: ironical

Guest   Wed Jun 04, 2008 4:15 pm GMT
Why do some people have to say "ironical" when "ironic" sounds much more refined? When someone says "ironical" it makes me think they're missing something.
guest   Wed Jun 04, 2008 5:43 pm GMT
I have never heard or seen "ironical" before. only "ironic". Where did you see this used?
Barmy   Wed Jun 04, 2008 6:03 pm GMT
These may be the same people who use irregardless when regardless works just fine.
Skippy   Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:16 pm GMT
What exactly is the difference between regardless and irregardless?
greg   Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:29 pm GMT
guest : « I have never heard or seen "ironical" before. only "ironic". Where did you see this used? ».

Et pourtant les deux vocables sont assez anciens — quatre siècles, probablement.

An <irony> (XVIe s.) est un emprunt à l'ancien français <ironie> (forme inchangée en français moderne) ou <yronie> (XIIIe s.).

D'après le TILF, Fr <ironique> remonte au moyen français <yronicque> (1521). Je pense que cette forme française est à l'origine de la forme anglaise <ironic>.

Le surgissement de la forme anglaise <ironical> est sans doute contemporain de l'émergence de la forme française empruntée. Le seul problème c'est que La <ironicus> est attesté alors que La *<ironicalis> ne l'est pas (du moins à ma connaissance).

Alors d'où vient An <ironical> si ce n'est pas de La *<ironicalis> ? Il se peut qu'une hypercorrection soit à l'origine de cette forme calquée sur la suffixation latine <#alis>. Il se peut aussi que la suffixation latine anglicisée (La <#alis> → An <#al>) ait été assez affermie pour ne pas recourir à l'hypothèse de l'hypercorrection.

Dans tous les cas, il serait intéressant que les anglophones nous expliquent la distribution (ou le chevauchement) sémantique des formes An <ironic> & An <ironical>.
Guest   Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:38 pm GMT
They write 'ironical' to emphasise how ironical the situation is. It's a play on words.
Russconha   Thu Jun 05, 2008 12:15 am GMT
Would 'irregardless' mean regardable or regarded?
Barmy   Thu Jun 05, 2008 12:23 pm GMT
Irregardless means exactly the same thing as regardless. It is technically a word, but its use is frowned upon. Especially by me.
guest   Thu Jun 05, 2008 1:12 pm GMT
<<Would 'irregardless' mean regardable or regarded? >>

Technically, Yes. It's a double negative (ir- + regard + -less = not regard less, or "regardful", "with regard")
guest   Thu Jun 05, 2008 1:22 pm GMT
All dictionary entries I've searched draw "ironic" directly from Latin [Origin: 1620–30; < LL īrōnicus < Gk eirōnikós dissembling, insincere.]

And there *is* a form "ironical" formed from adding the English suffix "-al" (which incidentally comes from Latin -alis) to ironic [Origin: 1570–80; ironic + -al], which oddly seems to predate the originating stem 'ironic' (1570 for ironical; 1620 for ironic. ???)
Quidsane   Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:22 am GMT
"Ironical" and "irregardless", while being real words,
are soooooo cringeworthy!
Post a reply (Please read   Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:45 am GMT
Another thing which is cringe-worthy is people who write (and even more so if they say it) "soooooo" in a valley-girl-esque way.
Quidsane   Mon Jun 23, 2008 9:26 am GMT
How about people who write create spineless words like "valley-girl-esque"?
Lighten up, Francis...
Guest   Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:11 am GMT
Are "ironical" and "ironic" similar to "phonetical" and "phonetic"?
Guest   Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:16 am GMT
<<"Ironical" and "irregardless", while being real words,
are soooooo cringeworthy! >>

In speech, the word "irregardless", with 4 syllables, gives the speaker more opportunities to stress the word. You can stress the 1st and 3rd syllables, and draw out the first syllable a bit to add emphasis.