Legitimising dialect discrimination

**Those who do not speak the preferred dialect of the language are often considered lower in class status, less well educated and, in extremis, even less intelligent. **

Yes, yes, we all know that, but how are people to be protected from discrimination in the workplace?

<<Yes, yes, we all know that, but how are people to be protected from discrimination in the workplace?>>

Yes, yes, but Guest, your question starts with a fallacy. We will not be able to, nor should we protect people in the workplace against the possibility of being judged incompetent based on the fact that they don't require the education to do the job or that they speak like an illiterate. A company has the right to insist that people in certain positions represent the company in a positive light. If the company don't want no rednecks or illiterates a workin' for'em or answerin' their phones and whatnot, well shit howdy, i thank they got that right.

It's not just a person's speech that has to conform. We also require them to dress a certain way and to follow certain hygiene requirements. I'm not sure why you have the idea that employers shouldn't screen out people who can't speak in a manner appropriate to the particular workplace.

At any rate, you don't find this "discrimintation" in all areas of employment. If you work at an autobody shop or a slaughterhouse you won't have any problems as long as you can make yourself understood.

Away from work of course, people have the right to speak however they like.

<<Those who do not speak the preferred dialect of the language are often considered lower in class status, less well educated and, in extremis, even less intelligent>>

It's a sad day when a prosperous nation like the US still clings to outdated notions of what's acceptable in the workplace. We think it's ok to discriminate based on lack of education or intelligence. We throw around catchphrases like "ability to do the required work" and "minimum requirements" and "basic core competencies" as if they were not transparent vehicles for blatant discrimination agaist the less qualified, less intelligent or less edcuated. What are those people supposed to do when the doors of employment are closed to them. When you foreclose opportunities you only create more inequality. Why does your constitution say all men are created equal? Is that just a nice way of saying that some are more equal than others?

Does it mean that you believe in equality in the workplace but only to the extent that someone is able to understand the job requirements and do that job? That's not equality, that's DISCRIMINATION!

If it's the accent which is non-standard I think it should not be discriminated against unless it's impossible to understand, after all it's very difficult to change one's accent and it is not a good indication of one's education. If it is non-standard grammar then yes it is OK to discriminate. If the person is educated then they should be able to 'switch off' their non-standard grammar and speak normally for their job, even if they speak different at home. Speaking with proper grammar is much easier than changing an accent provided the person has been educated properly.

<<If it's the accent which is non-standard I think it should not be discriminated against unless it's impossible to understand>>

I agree 100%. I've never seen someone discriminated against based on accent alone. Like I said, two of our previous recent Presidents had strong southern accents. If that accent were unacceptable to the majority of Americans, a Southerner who speaks with a Southern accent would be able to ascend to the highest office. In the company where I work we have executives with every conceivable regional US accent as well accents from different countries and no one even thinks about it. We have several people in my department who are from other countries and whose English is practically unintelligible, but since their specialty is IT (Information Technology) it doesn't keep them from employment.

For those of you who think it unfair that people discriminate based on dialect, I think it would be important to note that we must maintain some standards of language. Language can as easily be a hindrance as it is a tool. But it is also important to understand that dialect does not indicate intelligence. It can only indicate social groups, regions, and class.

We will not be able to, nor should we protect people in the workplace against the possibility of being judged incompetent based on the fact that they don't require the education to do the job or that they speak like an illiterate.

Bill, do you consider yourself educated? Some might have doubts about you educational abilities when you post such childlike statements as this:

<<We will not be able to, nor should we protect people in the workplace against the possibility of being judged incompetent based on the fact that they don't require the education to do the job or that they speak like an illiterate.>>

Do you really believe that using a different dialect than the standard one means that one is uneducated and illiterate?

<<It's a sad day when a prosperous nation like the US still clings to outdated notions of what's acceptable in the workplace.>>

I'm afraid the US has gone down the tubes. Many Americans are beginning to sound like the National Socialists from the 30s. Scary things happening to the US.

**Does it mean that you believe in equality in the workplace but only to the extent that someone is able to understand the job requirements and do that job? That's not equality, that's DISCRIMINATION!**

I agree. From USers these days, it more a tune of "we expect you to be equal from day one" and not "let's help create equality".

So would you trust an economic minister who said "yo all ma hommiez dis iz lyke todali of dal wall yeah ma bro, i waz lyke talking up wif da home boyz in da meetin today an lyke we sooo totally decidid dat da oil pwices godda cum down yeah ma man! I fink dat we lyke need prodect up da conzumerz yo, get dem down wif da razin oil pwices ma man! So watta ya rechkon eh ma homie Gs in da hoodz who godda get to work yall in da mornin wif der carz and shiz"?

<<If the person is educated then they should be able to 'switch off' their non-standard grammar and speak normally for their job, even if they speak different at home. Speaking with proper grammar is much easier than changing an accent provided the person has been educated properly. >>

How about the reverse? If a standard English, mono-dialectal, speaker moves to an area where another (so called non-standard) dialect is spoken shouldn't he also "switch off" his standard English usage and speak as the majority around him do?

There was very widespread "accent discrimination" in the UK when many of the commercial call centres were based in and around Glasgow, up here in Scotland, before they were all hived off to India, that is.

The companies and organisations concerned were constantly being besieged by frustrated callers from many other parts of the UK, outside of Scotland, unable to understand what many of the (Glasgow) Scottish operators were saying. People in the south of England, in particular, were the most vociferous protestors, and we Scots were continually being criticised and abused by these callers simply because of the accent problem. In addition, many of the callers in England complained that the Scottish operators knew very little about England and its geography, which irritated them even more, without giving any thought to the widespread English lack of knowledge about Scottish geography!

Now that many of these callers are based in India, all the venom is being directed againt the poor souls out there trying to cope with frustrated, irritated callers from ALL parts of the UK, most of whom are stressed out anyway which is why they call the call centres in the first place.

Now more and more UK organisations are transferring their call centres back to the UK again, but in a country such as this, with so many regional accents and dialects, and with so many immigrants now seeking work in the UK, the problem will never really go away, and it's impossible to please all of the people all of the time.

The ideal situation, I suppose, is for all call centre staff to speak in 100% kosher English English RP, base them in neutral places such as Ipswich or Exeter or Harrogate, in the hope that they will be understood by all and sundry. Then wait for all the complaints to come rollng in from East Kilbride (Scotland) or Merthyr Tydfil (Wales) about all the operators sounding "too English, too posh". As in practically everything in life, there will for ever be a no-win situation. ;-)

<<If a standard English, mono-dialectal, speaker moves to an area where another (so called non-standard) dialect is spoken shouldn't he also "switch off" his standard English usage and speak as the majority around him do?>>


There are no such places where people are taught dialect in universities.

<So would you trust an economic minister who said >

What's an "economic minister"?

<<Now that many of these callers are based in India, all the venom is being directed againt the poor souls out there trying to cope with frustrated, irritated callers from ALL parts of the UK, most of whom are stressed out anyway which is why they call the call centres in the first place. >>

So even after all these years of Indians and Pakistanis living in Britain, you British do not understand them when you hear them, right? What have you all been doing these years?