Legitimising dialect discrimination

<<You get that with a lot of standard English dialect speakers. They just can't let go of words like "shall" and "whom". >>

Maybe in England or other Anglophone areas. Here in Los Angeles we speak a pretty standardized form of English and I've never used the word "shall" in a sentence in my life. I don't hear "whom" very often except from foreigners who have learned a very "correct" English. Nnoe of my friends or coleagues use "whom", so I'm nto sure where you're getting that.

<<I think it's more you who is giving us a folksy picture of rural communities hoping we'll swallow the bait.>>

It sounds like you'v eled a pretty sheltered life and you're coming at this from a purely academic perspective and aren't interested in hearing anything from people who are actually "in the field". I'm trying to figure out what motivates you to react with such determined hostility to information that doesn't fit into your pre-determined paradigm.

As for trying to paint a folksy picture of rural communities, I'm only telling you what I've experienced firsthand and I don't see how it's "folksy". I'm not even sure what you mean by that. My guess is you haven't spent any time in a rural American or European community and it's likely what I'm saying doesn't fit the picture you've put together from some classes you've attended. I'm not "hoping you'll swallow the bait" because I have nothing to gain or lose regardless of whether you think I'm being truthful. Do I win a prize if you decide to accept anything I say as possibly accurate? Your comment is rediculous on its face.

Here's the irony... I was sharing my experience to help you better understand dynamics that you seem to have learned about from a college course but have no direct experience with. So I was trying to be helpful and you have reacted by making obtuse arguments that don't even correctly address the questions you raised in the first place. You're clearly not interested in an honest dialogue. You have an axe to grind with standard speakers and no matter what I say, since I'm a standard speaker, you'll dismiss it and come back with some silly retort.

Do yourself a favor. Get out and visit some places first hand where dialects are spoken and talk to the people who speak the dialect. Talk to them *about* their dialect. You probably won't though because you probably already know everything there is to know about the subject from a class you took or a book you've read.

"[S]tandard English dialect speakers"

I've never met a single one of those in all my life.

<Nnoe of my friends or coleagues use "whom", so I'm nto sure where you're getting that. >

I'm getting at the fact that many standard English speakers also do not move on linguisticallly.

**It sounds like you'v eled a pretty sheltered life and you're coming at this from a purely academic perspective and aren't interested in hearing anything from people who are actually "in the field". **

It sounds as if you are inventing a past to fit a situation.

!!Do yourself a favor. Get out and visit some places first hand where dialects are spoken and talk to the people who speak the dialect. Talk to them *about* their dialect. You probably won't though because you probably already know everything there is to know about the subject from a class you took or a book you've read. !!

I am actually a native English speaker. I am bidialectal, which means that I have more opportunities, more potential, in life than most mono-dialectal people.

<<I am actually a native English speaker. I am bidialectal, which means that I have more opportunities, more potential, in life than most mono-dialectal people.>>

...Does your dialect have the term *whackjob*?

<Does your dialect have the term *whackjob*? >

In my dialect, we'd use "nobhead" for people like you.

<<In my dialect, we'd use "nobhead" for people like you.>>

You're the one who doesn't listen to anything anyone else on this forum has to say and goes on the offensive we try to help you see from another's experience. You're the one who thinks only your experience is valid and everyone else is lying. You're the one who posts crazy questions about attempted murder of the English language. That sounds like a paranoid personality to me, with a dash of persecution complex thrown in for good measure (they're all out to get you because of your dialect). Someone could say the sky is cloudy today and your response would be: "Oh, so dialect speakers don't deserve sunshine??" I would feel sorry for you if I didn't suspect that you're actually a troll.

At any rate, troll or not, you're obviously not here for discussion, only to whine about your discrimination theories and tell us what potential you have due to your status as a dialect speaker. What the hell is a dialect in the US anyway? Do you have a hillbilly accent that you call a dialect? I've never been to the US but it's my understanding that there are very few true dialect speakers there.

One thing that you must remember here is that the term dialect, from a linguistic standpoint, includes what is called "accent" in terms of native speakers. Take what I normally speak on an everyday basis - you would probably call it merely an "accent", considering that it is syntactically and morphologically rather close* to standard colloquial NAE and has only relatively limited vocabulary differences from such, even though it has very drastic phonological differences from General American proper. It is very easy to (wrongly) claim that "most people speak roughly the same dialect" if you eliminate phonology from the question altogether and only focus on morphology, syntax, and vocabulary.

That said, while if you use the linguistic definition of "dialect" I could be easily claimed to be bidialectal, due to being able to speak both my own native dialect and an General American with an Upper Midwestern dialect substratum, I myself have not found it really necessary socially to speak much if at all in General American. I normally speak in my native dialect all the time, including with coworkers at work (albeit in a fashion that is a bit toned down compared to what I speak at home, as I do work with a good number of people not from the area). Honestly, I only find it necessary to speak with General American when speaking with foreigners who have not sufficiently acclimatized to the dialect here to really understand it that well, even though I will use it to mark social distance, particularly when speaking to service personnel as a customer or individuals of a far higher position than myself in formal contexts.

* it has isolated morphological and syntactic differences from standard colloquial NAE aside from the usual variation found throughout English in preterite and past participle forms, such as minor differences in preposition and phrasal verb usage, different patterns of adverbial forms in cases, and the usage of strange hybrid weak-strong past participle forms in cases.

<<You won't hear your physician say "Well Billybob, I done forgot where I put my prescription pad. I'd ask my nurse but she don't know where it's at neither.">>

Yes you will.

If you have a friendly relationship with your physician, they will speak naturally around you (like the above example).

<<<<You're the one who doesn't listen to anything anyone else on this forum has to say and goes on the offensive we try to help you see from another's experience. You're the one who thinks only your experience is valid and everyone else is lying. You're the one who posts crazy questions about attempted murder of the English language.>>>>>

Hey, you're the one who hides behind "Guest".

Hey, you're the one who hides behind "Guest".

Right, like anyone here is using a real name! That was brilliant.

(Hey, you're the one who hides behind "Guest". )

LOL Ok, signed,

KT, Damien, Skippy, Morgan, Travis, Laura Braun, i'm sure I left some of the other real identities out.

Yes you will.

If you have a friendly relationship with your physician, they will speak naturally around you (like the above example).


I'v enever heard such nonsense. My doctor doesn't talk that way because he went to school at something called a university. But I think it's a very good thing that you've got a friendly relationship with your physician. You'll see him a lot I guess for your medication scrips.

You know, it is possible to talk in a friendly, informal manner but still sound educated...