<We leave>
That's so cool we like it when you do that ;-P
That's so cool we like it when you do that ;-P
Why are English speakers so lazy about learning?
Well, either this board has been inundate by trolls or by ignorance--both are ugly.Well, either this board has been inundated by trolls or by ignorance. It doesn’t really matter which, both are ugly.
>>The U.S. has too much nationalism in its antiquated image, too much pride in its military, too much arrogance in English being only used, too much emphasize on the past (WW2) being better then now, and finally too much corruption to progress. This is why in many European countries the people control the government, not the other way around as in the United States of America.
A bit far-fetched, but I truly hope my language will never become anything like English - so fxxked up, so messed up, so slurred, so uglily spoken... naturally as it has been as a general lingua franca, I could imagine how ugly Chinese characters were being unified after 221 BC, when the peoples of the conquered six states, among others, had to change their way of writing entirely, had their cultures destroyed and so on.
No matter how glorious the Roman culture had been, I can never forget how the languages around Rome were killed by the peoples themselves............. now that everyone only remembers Spanish for being hot, and Italian being "less hot", and responses like "Portuguese must be something very poor, not to mention Romanian which nobody learns anyway", now that they have forgotten Latin as well, probably followed by Wenyan, multiple "dialects" of China, and, finally, their own native language.
>>I HAVE lived in Japan. Three years. Hey, maybe they were all secretly fluent in Hungarian, but as far as I could tell, most of them only spoke Japanese. And why not?
Yeah, so it's quite a pointless complaint. The main complaint might actually be why foreign governments, such as the Chinese and its child government in Hong Kong, are forcing their young citizens to learn English as part of compulsory education (now, everything will be compulsory until kids turn 18, unlike in the US where some kids can be taught privately). I'd say this is how they indoctrinate people in their own national policies, without knowing that it'd only help the so-called Anglophone imperialists in turn.
It'd actually be ideal if I could study in my city for a CSL (rather than ESL) degree. Even if it's good to be indoctrinated, I'd rather become a teacher and teach YOU my language instead of teaching yours rather badly or learning yours forever like a fool in my own country. So, now, besides this ideal, another important thing I'd say about English is: it's too much as an official language.
A bit far-fetched, but I truly hope my language will never become anything like English - so fxxked up, so messed up, so slurred, so uglily spoken... naturally as it has been as a general lingua franca, I could imagine how ugly Chinese characters were being unified after 221 BC, when the peoples of the conquered six states, among others, had to change their way of writing entirely, had their cultures destroyed and so on.
No matter how glorious the Roman culture had been, I can never forget how the languages around Rome were killed by the peoples themselves............. now that everyone only remembers Spanish for being hot, and Italian being "less hot", and responses like "Portuguese must be something very poor, not to mention Romanian which nobody learns anyway", now that they have forgotten Latin as well, probably followed by Wenyan, multiple "dialects" of China, and, finally, their own native language.
>>I HAVE lived in Japan. Three years. Hey, maybe they were all secretly fluent in Hungarian, but as far as I could tell, most of them only spoke Japanese. And why not?
Yeah, so it's quite a pointless complaint. The main complaint might actually be why foreign governments, such as the Chinese and its child government in Hong Kong, are forcing their young citizens to learn English as part of compulsory education (now, everything will be compulsory until kids turn 18, unlike in the US where some kids can be taught privately). I'd say this is how they indoctrinate people in their own national policies, without knowing that it'd only help the so-called Anglophone imperialists in turn.
It'd actually be ideal if I could study in my city for a CSL (rather than ESL) degree. Even if it's good to be indoctrinated, I'd rather become a teacher and teach YOU my language instead of teaching yours rather badly or learning yours forever like a fool in my own country. So, now, besides this ideal, another important thing I'd say about English is: it's too much as an official language.
<<A bit far-fetched, but I truly hope my language will never become anything like English - so fxxked up, so messed up, so slurred, so uglily spoken... naturally as it has been as a general lingua franca,>>
Who says? I like the way foreigners talk.
Who says? I like the way foreigners talk.
I understand how economics controls human life, probably starting from the day humans live together and hunt together.... and why people use English first before anything else (if at all) on the net - even when I meet any other foreigners here and elsewhere, I can do fine without any single word of their languages (and mine). But this economy is at the same time marginalizing their languages and mine.
But it's pointless, either, to speak of language awareness when you can't have any idea of what a language is like. Mine is already popular enough, at least to non-learners, for being purely pictorial and "terribly" difficult - though this is a myth. What about others? We're now simply making the world smaller, by saying that "Well, for me as a Chinese, in this world, there are countries like mine, Japan, the US, the UK...". But when we go on, we can only say maybe a few dozens of countries, and others are too insignificant to mention - those are just (tiny) figures, not people. By having only one language it means you'd be ignoring those figures, when they won't really count anyway. So are their languages and cultures.
For purely economic reasons, there have been miserable Indians and Pakistanis who can speak perfect Chinese (and probably English) without having good job opportunities for ethnic reasons, while a great majority of those lazy whites won't ever learn the local lingos while earning buckets of money........ all that they know are a few words like dimsum, yumcha......... while it must really be a very natural economic phenomenon, it doesn't deny the fact that languages have been underrepresented in at least one society of the East. I don't think I can do anything about it (when I think of some other South Asians who would only learn English and say Chinese is too difficult, isolate themselves, and never talk to "locals"), but:
it'd be utterly stupid for more economically privileged peoples to look down on their languages in favor of, in many cases, ENGLISH. They can blame nothing other than themselves when they see 1) their children, who have been forced to study in the US/UK, return with very rusty Chinese (if at all) and 2) their children not getting further job promotion for being too poor in that uncivilized, uneducated, and worthless lingo of guttersnipes. THESE are what the Chinese call "Ocean (foreign) worshipers", who we won't hesitate to bash, but who are so numerous among us.
But it's pointless, either, to speak of language awareness when you can't have any idea of what a language is like. Mine is already popular enough, at least to non-learners, for being purely pictorial and "terribly" difficult - though this is a myth. What about others? We're now simply making the world smaller, by saying that "Well, for me as a Chinese, in this world, there are countries like mine, Japan, the US, the UK...". But when we go on, we can only say maybe a few dozens of countries, and others are too insignificant to mention - those are just (tiny) figures, not people. By having only one language it means you'd be ignoring those figures, when they won't really count anyway. So are their languages and cultures.
For purely economic reasons, there have been miserable Indians and Pakistanis who can speak perfect Chinese (and probably English) without having good job opportunities for ethnic reasons, while a great majority of those lazy whites won't ever learn the local lingos while earning buckets of money........ all that they know are a few words like dimsum, yumcha......... while it must really be a very natural economic phenomenon, it doesn't deny the fact that languages have been underrepresented in at least one society of the East. I don't think I can do anything about it (when I think of some other South Asians who would only learn English and say Chinese is too difficult, isolate themselves, and never talk to "locals"), but:
it'd be utterly stupid for more economically privileged peoples to look down on their languages in favor of, in many cases, ENGLISH. They can blame nothing other than themselves when they see 1) their children, who have been forced to study in the US/UK, return with very rusty Chinese (if at all) and 2) their children not getting further job promotion for being too poor in that uncivilized, uneducated, and worthless lingo of guttersnipes. THESE are what the Chinese call "Ocean (foreign) worshipers", who we won't hesitate to bash, but who are so numerous among us.
"while a great majority of those lazy whites won't ever learn the local lingos while earning buckets of money......"
You sound bitter. Could it be that some of them are simply too busy making buckets of money to learn Cantonese?
I think they should try harder, but if they are going there to make money and exit after six months or a year, they aren't going to learn much.
You sound bitter. Could it be that some of them are simply too busy making buckets of money to learn Cantonese?
I think they should try harder, but if they are going there to make money and exit after six months or a year, they aren't going to learn much.
I don't think English speakers are "lazy" when it comes to learning a second language. I think they are exposed, like many others, to poor language programs that turn-off a student from learning. Most children, upon entering Middle School, must take at least two years of foreign language. They are exposed to teachers who make them recite verb conjugations, memorize random words, and take tests on bizarre things. Most students conclude that learning a foreign language will be extremely difficult, because after two years of study, they still have not learned anything of substance and cannot communicate nor form a correct sentence.
Why are most non-native speakers of English too lazy to learn a language other than English? Could it be because English proficiency is actually *required* to get a decent job in today's world? If that's the case then why should native English speakers learn other foreign languages any more than a Dutch or Swede should have to learn Romanian or Czech?
<<This is why in the U.S. there is a racial discord.>>
Yes, and there is none in Europe?? No muslim riots in the US. How well would I do as a Muslim in France or Germany. I was treated like a third class citizen. Jews are treated almost as bad in Europe as Muslims. I found the countries in Europe (I only had experiences with Austria, France and Germany) to be the most intolerant, nationalistic plces I've ever seen. For a person with olive skin and an Arab name it was horrible. In the US, I have not experienced this at all, even with the problems brought about after 9/11.
<<That is because the U.S. has imposed (or imposes) English in its subjects with nationalism and opportunity in English so that immigrants or minorities can leave behind their language...>>
So please tell me in which country do they let foreigners immigrate and they don't require use of the host country's language? This is absurd to comment that the US requires people to learn English, as though it's unusual to have a national standard for communicating.
<<Then, you are not speaking their tongue correctly otherwise they would respond back in their language - simple as that.>>
You must be an arrogant American to presume to tell the poster that he is not speaking his family's language correctly. You don't even know what language it is and you were not there when she was speaking so you have actually no idea what you're talking about. How can one evaluate such a specious comment? Some people just like to practice their English.. just like you are on this site.
<<Amercians, simply put: are xenophobic -fascist- pricks who only glorfiy their own country, language, and culture as the BEST.... >>
That statement is very bigoted. You put all Americans in one category. How arrogant of you. It's like if I say, All extremists should be shot to death! The statement itself contradicts the sentiment you are trying to express. You are probably an Arrogant Englishman.
Yes, and there is none in Europe?? No muslim riots in the US. How well would I do as a Muslim in France or Germany. I was treated like a third class citizen. Jews are treated almost as bad in Europe as Muslims. I found the countries in Europe (I only had experiences with Austria, France and Germany) to be the most intolerant, nationalistic plces I've ever seen. For a person with olive skin and an Arab name it was horrible. In the US, I have not experienced this at all, even with the problems brought about after 9/11.
<<That is because the U.S. has imposed (or imposes) English in its subjects with nationalism and opportunity in English so that immigrants or minorities can leave behind their language...>>
So please tell me in which country do they let foreigners immigrate and they don't require use of the host country's language? This is absurd to comment that the US requires people to learn English, as though it's unusual to have a national standard for communicating.
<<Then, you are not speaking their tongue correctly otherwise they would respond back in their language - simple as that.>>
You must be an arrogant American to presume to tell the poster that he is not speaking his family's language correctly. You don't even know what language it is and you were not there when she was speaking so you have actually no idea what you're talking about. How can one evaluate such a specious comment? Some people just like to practice their English.. just like you are on this site.
<<Amercians, simply put: are xenophobic -fascist- pricks who only glorfiy their own country, language, and culture as the BEST.... >>
That statement is very bigoted. You put all Americans in one category. How arrogant of you. It's like if I say, All extremists should be shot to death! The statement itself contradicts the sentiment you are trying to express. You are probably an Arrogant Englishman.
>>I think they should try harder, but if they are going there to make money and exit after six months or a year, they aren't going to learn much.
I've met at least two prof. at my uni. who at least couldn't speak anything... beyond a few words after spending 10/25 years here. So, when I was reading a blog by a cultural activist who really got in touch with local Pakistanis (to know about their religion, namely Muslim) AND Iranians in Iran some time ago... this guy wrote, somewhat subjectively imo, that "now, see, many local Pakistanis struggle with our language, learn until they reach very high or even complete fluency, and yet they are often disregarded as an important minority in Hong Kong. On the contrary, see the foreigners (lao wai) who can only say chasiu buns, yum cha (drink tea), and things like that after living here for multiple years..."
So, at least for me, I think it's been widely recognized that certain languages are more prestigious, something that you can't deny with PC reasons. I can't "say" which is worthless, or less worthy than others, but at least you can know what people think.
At my place, an international language is the business language. The local is of coz most dominant, but since "everyone" is expected to know, we won't care much about it (free market). But what about the rest? In fact, any foreigner who learns our language won't be taken very seriously. They can be "cultural" converts, so that we expect and are satisfied with their limited fluency (like Ho Kwok Wing). They can be "completely" Chinese for being born and raised here, so that some of them even call themselves "ghosts" and... still "remain" somewhat foreign despite being a complete native.
And the rest.. are simply the yum-cha laowais who use English all their life anyway. For overseas students, it might be common for them to feel somewhat "detached" from the local life... but, on the other hand, it's interesting to see some laowais in a homogeneous society who are so willing NOT to become part of it. I don't think locals would feel bad for having fluent learners (in fact, I'm longing for such), but that phenomenon... I mean, a close connection with linguistic ability and descent has been so fossilized that the average bilinguals won't/can't mind if such laowais refuse to learn the local lingo. The treatment they are given could be very different owing to their status...
I've met at least two prof. at my uni. who at least couldn't speak anything... beyond a few words after spending 10/25 years here. So, when I was reading a blog by a cultural activist who really got in touch with local Pakistanis (to know about their religion, namely Muslim) AND Iranians in Iran some time ago... this guy wrote, somewhat subjectively imo, that "now, see, many local Pakistanis struggle with our language, learn until they reach very high or even complete fluency, and yet they are often disregarded as an important minority in Hong Kong. On the contrary, see the foreigners (lao wai) who can only say chasiu buns, yum cha (drink tea), and things like that after living here for multiple years..."
So, at least for me, I think it's been widely recognized that certain languages are more prestigious, something that you can't deny with PC reasons. I can't "say" which is worthless, or less worthy than others, but at least you can know what people think.
At my place, an international language is the business language. The local is of coz most dominant, but since "everyone" is expected to know, we won't care much about it (free market). But what about the rest? In fact, any foreigner who learns our language won't be taken very seriously. They can be "cultural" converts, so that we expect and are satisfied with their limited fluency (like Ho Kwok Wing). They can be "completely" Chinese for being born and raised here, so that some of them even call themselves "ghosts" and... still "remain" somewhat foreign despite being a complete native.
And the rest.. are simply the yum-cha laowais who use English all their life anyway. For overseas students, it might be common for them to feel somewhat "detached" from the local life... but, on the other hand, it's interesting to see some laowais in a homogeneous society who are so willing NOT to become part of it. I don't think locals would feel bad for having fluent learners (in fact, I'm longing for such), but that phenomenon... I mean, a close connection with linguistic ability and descent has been so fossilized that the average bilinguals won't/can't mind if such laowais refuse to learn the local lingo. The treatment they are given could be very different owing to their status...
<< there's no need to learn a language unless they need it for work or want to do so just for fun. >>
It may not be a need, but it becomes highly desirable to learn another language when you are regularly bombarded with people speaking in their native language (even though they can speak very good English) in front of you and then every 5 or 10 minutes they give you brief selected extracts of what has been said. No matter what these peoples' language is, it is important to make them aware that you also know another language well. In general, the best language for an English speaker to nurture is Spanish, because Spanish is a world language like English and Spanish is relatively close to English.
The reason many many non native speakers of English become very good at English is that English is a very easy language to nurture. The closest thing that native English speakers have to this situation is Spanish.
It may not be a need, but it becomes highly desirable to learn another language when you are regularly bombarded with people speaking in their native language (even though they can speak very good English) in front of you and then every 5 or 10 minutes they give you brief selected extracts of what has been said. No matter what these peoples' language is, it is important to make them aware that you also know another language well. In general, the best language for an English speaker to nurture is Spanish, because Spanish is a world language like English and Spanish is relatively close to English.
The reason many many non native speakers of English become very good at English is that English is a very easy language to nurture. The closest thing that native English speakers have to this situation is Spanish.
<< I've met at least two prof. at my uni. who at least couldn't speak anything... beyond a few words after spending 10/25 years here. >>
What exactly do you mean couldn't speak anything ???
If any of the two professors spoke French would you count that as something? Have you ever asked either of them whether thay have ever done even one year of French (or German or Latin etc) at any school or university?
As a result of being subjected to your thought provoking statement - A person could possibly find themselves saying that I know Chinese people who couldn't speak anything in the world's other International Language - Spanish ... beyond a few words after 10 years.
What exactly do you mean couldn't speak anything ???
If any of the two professors spoke French would you count that as something? Have you ever asked either of them whether thay have ever done even one year of French (or German or Latin etc) at any school or university?
As a result of being subjected to your thought provoking statement - A person could possibly find themselves saying that I know Chinese people who couldn't speak anything in the world's other International Language - Spanish ... beyond a few words after 10 years.
<< And the rest.. are simply the yum-cha laowais who use English all their life anyway. >>
Mind Boggling!!! I know for a fact that some of these people are very good at languages such as French, Italian and/or Spanish etc Some are actually fluent and use their second language, English, with your people.
Mind Boggling!!! I know for a fact that some of these people are very good at languages such as French, Italian and/or Spanish etc Some are actually fluent and use their second language, English, with your people.
<<Then, you are not speaking their tongue correctly otherwise they would respond back in their language - simple as that.>>
What arrogance! Imagine if English speakers did that! The whole of world order would fall apart because 97 out of 100 foreigns wouldn't get a response!
What arrogance! Imagine if English speakers did that! The whole of world order would fall apart because 97 out of 100 foreigns wouldn't get a response!
<< On the contrary, see the foreigners (lao wai) who can only say chasiu buns, yum cha (drink tea), and things like that after living here for multiple years. >>
Maybe these foreigners often visit Macau and use their Spanish to speak with those in Macau who know Portugese.
Maybe these foreigners often visit Macau and use their Spanish to speak with those in Macau who know Portugese.