however

A J   Wed Nov 30, 2005 9:06 am GMT
why is it that the conjunction "however" should be in the middle of a sentence, while other conjunctions like "and" and "but" appear at the head of sentences?



(please correct if there's something wrong grammatically in my question)
Wild Pegasus   Wed Nov 30, 2005 9:52 am GMT
Beginning an English sentence with "and" or "but" is considered bad style. "However" is almost always used at the beginning of sentences. Your question is exactly backwards.
A J   Wed Nov 30, 2005 10:17 am GMT
No. then, why do I always witness the opposite when I read books?
Geoff_One   Wed Nov 30, 2005 10:38 am GMT
Poetic License
Guest   Thu Dec 01, 2005 4:36 pm GMT
"However" is an adverb, and you can put it in the middle or at the end of a sentence, too.
Pete   Thu Dec 01, 2005 4:56 pm GMT
I don't think so guys. Correct grammar says that however should be used at the beginning of a sentence and followed by a comma, like this:

Guest says it goes at the middle of a sentence. However, it's put at the beginning of a subordinate clause like here.

English teachers, correct me if I'm wrong. I guess I'm not...
Travis   Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:07 pm GMT
>>I don't think so guys. Correct grammar says that however should be used at the beginning of a sentence and followed by a comma, like this:

Guest says it goes at the middle of a sentence. However, it's put at the beginning of a subordinate clause like here.

English teachers, correct me if I'm wrong. I guess I'm not...<<

For starters, if one is going to have any serious discussion about actual language usage, *the* first thing that one should forget is all that one has ever been taught about "correctness". What one is taught as being "correct" in school has practical nothing to do with actual usage.

As for the "beginning of a subordinate clause", well, I think that's what Guest means by "in the middle of a sentence", as most often subordinate clauses do come after main clauses, which of course would be in the middle of the sentence in question. And yes, just for the record, you can put it, in certain cases, at the ends of sentences, even though in this case it is probably acting more like an adverb than a conjunction per se.
Pete   Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:14 pm GMT
Well, Travis. I suppose you're right. In any language all over the world has a Correct Grammar which is respected by a small amount of people, generally cultured or people who comes from a very well-educated background.

The rest of us, say 90% of the human beings, try to get people to understand what we say, rather than follow strict grammar rules about a particular language. However, if that guy, A J, is gonna have an exam or something, the grammaticaly correct usage is what I said above.
Pete   Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:18 pm GMT
Gosh, fucking mistakes. I hate grammar.

It says:

In any language ...

people who comes ...

It must say:

Any language ...

people who come ...
eito(jpn)   Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:29 pm GMT
We can read and write, however, in English.
Travis   Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:38 pm GMT
>>Well, Travis. I suppose you're right. In any language all over the world has a Correct Grammar which is respected by a small amount of people, generally cultured or people who comes from a very well-educated background.<<

It is more a matter of that what prescriptivists of various sorts (grammarians, English teachers, and like) say is "correct" is very often extremely out of touch with actual usage, and furthermore that what is often taught as being a given language is in practice only a highly cut down and idealized subset of said language, even when one is considering just the "standard" variety of said language. One is not likely to be taught either everyday spoken usage outside of the literary language or more archaic or poetic usages which are not normally used on an everyday basis, whether in speech or in writing, but which are still understood and which are still used for effect.

>>The rest of us, say 90% of the human beings, try to get people to understand what we say, rather than follow strict grammar rules about a particular language. However, if that guy, A J, is gonna have an exam or something, the grammaticaly correct usage is what I said above.<<

Oh, what people speak on an everyday basis most definitely *does* have quite firm grammar rules. It is just that these very often are not the same as what language teachers and grammarians say is "correct", and these are often unwritten and untaught, outside of the field of linguistics at least.
Adam   Thu Dec 01, 2005 7:49 pm GMT
I don't see why using "and" and "but" at the beginning of a sentence is wrong. Travis himself did it - "And yes, just for the record, you can put it, in certain cases, at the ends of sentences, even though in this case it is probably acting more like an adverb than a conjunction per se."

"And" at the beginning of a sentence is perfectly acceptable.
Adam   Thu Dec 01, 2005 7:51 pm GMT
Q. Can I use 'and' (or 'but', etc.) at the start of a sentence?

A. Yes.

The old "rule" that you can't begin a sentence with a conjunction has actually gone by the wayside. Occasionally, especially in casual writing, you can begin a sentence with and or but. These words are mainly used to join elements within a sentence, but they have begun sentences since the tenth century. But, like anything in grammar, do it sparingly. Variety is the spice of writing, as it is of life!

http://dictionary.reference.com/help/faq/language/a/and.html
Adam   Thu Dec 01, 2005 7:54 pm GMT
Why English grammar teachers may have got it wrong -


Starting Sentences with "And" or "But" (Nothing wrong with that)



A tip subscriber wrote to ask if she could ever start a sentence with the word "but." The answer to her question is yes.

The word "but" is one of the seven coordinating conjunctions:

and
but
or
nor
for
so
yet

Coordinating conjunctions are used to join words, phrases, and clauses that are balanced as logical equals:

Mary AND I went to the meeting. [joins two subjects]

We were tired YET exhilarated by the end of our first day hiking up Mt. Everest. [joins two adjectives]

We swam all morning BUT fished in the afternoon. [joins two verbs]

Often these conjunctions are used to coordinate two independent clauses (groups of words that can stand alone as sentences). Here are two examples, with the independent clauses in brackets:

[We started to go home], but [we had run out of gas].

[She was a good leader], for [she could delegate well].

Most likely, many people believe they should not start a sentence with a coordinating conjunction because their grammar teachers in grade school discouraged them from doing so. Yet such a rule is completely unjustifiable. When grammar teachers teach youngsters the essentials of sentence structure, they most likely explain that coordinating conjunctions are used to hold together elements within a sentence. Therefore, they may discourage students from starting sentences with coordinating conjunctions because they are trying not only to explain conjunctions but also to help their students learn to avoid sentence fragments like this one:

She was a nice girl. And smart, too.

In this example, using "and" after the period is wrong because the second "sentence" is not really a sentence at all: it has neither a subject nor a verb.

Thus, youngsters carry forward into adulthood the notion that a sentence should never begin with a coordinating conjunction, especially not with "and" or "but." In fact, however, professional writers have started sentences with coordinating conjunctions throughout history.

Starting virtually every sentence with a conjunction would, of course, make your writing thoroughly monotonous. And one would probably not want to use such a construction in very formal contexts. For every coordinating conjunction, there is a conjunctive adverb (however, nevertheless, moreover, furthermore, etc.) that holds the same meaning but represents a somewhat higher level of diction.

Compare these two constructions:

She wanted to leave the office, drive home, and spend the evening alone in front of a fire. But she knew that duty called her to finish the project and to put her best effort into making it superb.

She wanted to leave the office, drive home, and spend the evening alone in front of a fire. However, she knew that duty called her to finish the project and to put her best effort into making it superb.

We sound more formal (sometimes, almost stuffy) when we use "however" instead of "but." Yet certain situations do call for the less casual tone, and business writing is often one of them.

When you are writing in informal contexts and decide to start a sentence with a coordinating conjunction, always be sure that what follows it is an independent clause, capable of standing alone as a sentence.

getitwriteonline.com
Wild Pegasus   Fri Dec 02, 2005 11:46 am GMT
I should point out that I didn't say it was wrong to begin a sentence with "and" or "but", I said it was considered bad style. Generally, it is.

"We can read and write, however, in English." This sentence is grammatically correct but is awkward. Instead of "however", an English speaker would place the emphasis on "can":

"My sister and I both took French, but we've forgotten all of it. We *can* read and write in English."

An English author would probably place "however" at the beginning of the sentence - "However, we can read and write in English." - or use the word "though" at either end of the sentence - "Though we *can* read and write in English" or "We *can* read and write in English, though."

- Josh