I know. Everyone else thinks it's really funny when I don't. They always make me stop and say it over, and usually they laugh.
'Eye-urn'?
Only foreign learners pronounce it as Eye-run, but they pronounce OF with /f/ instead of /v/ too (''A friend off mine'' LOL). Most (that is, all non-native) English teachers in Continental Europe have terrible pronunciation...
>>Only foreign learners pronounce it as Eye-run, but they pronounce OF with /f/ instead of /v/ too (''A friend off mine'' LOL). Most (that is, all non-native) English teachers in Continental Europe have terrible pronunciation...<<
Ahem... it is quite common for English dialects to have phonetic final devoicing, and furthermore some English dialects with historical contact with West Germanic languages other than English or Scots have full-blown final fortition, at least at times.
Ahem... it is quite common for English dialects to have phonetic final devoicing, and furthermore some English dialects with historical contact with West Germanic languages other than English or Scots have full-blown final fortition, at least at times.
As a Scot I can definitely confirm that very few of my fellow Scots pronounce the "r" in iron. "Eye-un" is the most usual pronunciation. I have no idea how Americans generally say this word as I can't remember ever hearing any of them using the word.
What does either amuse or irritate most of my fellow Brits (not just Scots) is when they say "Eye-ran" and "Eye-rack" for Iran and Iraq. Call it British prejudice if you like (and most probably it is) but it just sounds so.....well, so American! On a par with saying "Edin-BURROW" (eeks!) or "Birming-HAM" or "Mos-COW" (as in the animal).
They are, of course, perfectly at liberty to pronounce any word of English, or any place name, exactly as they wish. It is their brand of the English Language now isn't it? It is one of the global tentacles of a truly global Language, as I have touched on in various other threads in Antimoon. This a fascinating subject!
What does either amuse or irritate most of my fellow Brits (not just Scots) is when they say "Eye-ran" and "Eye-rack" for Iran and Iraq. Call it British prejudice if you like (and most probably it is) but it just sounds so.....well, so American! On a par with saying "Edin-BURROW" (eeks!) or "Birming-HAM" or "Mos-COW" (as in the animal).
They are, of course, perfectly at liberty to pronounce any word of English, or any place name, exactly as they wish. It is their brand of the English Language now isn't it? It is one of the global tentacles of a truly global Language, as I have touched on in various other threads in Antimoon. This a fascinating subject!
I don't know whether what HappyHippo's stated should be regarded as funny or sad. However that may be, it's certainly true.
Here in Italy, high school English teachers provide basically no instruction at all on pronunciation. Believe me, not an effing single class on how to sound out words correctly.
The results? Students pronounce one out of every two English words incorrectly. For real.
As HappyHippo's noticed, whenever they say OF, it's invariably as if they're saying OFF.
Also, whenever they say a word ending in -ING, LOL, they have just no idea that the final G is more or less silent.
Half the words they say out loud, they mispronounce them, and even worse, several of their mispronunciations are systematic errors!
No one at school ever stopped them and made them aware of what's going on. Never.
This is particularly outrageous in that the very fact that those mistakes are systematic ones means that they could be corrected away probably by one single pronunciation lesson focusing on them.
When you teach a student that whenever a word ending in -ING is encountered they must not pronounce the final G, you create a pathway they can follow, a pathway towards correctly pronouncing a whole set of words.
I just don't see a student making the mistake over and over again if you teach them the right pattern. The more the student follows the pattern, the more they reinforce the correct pronunciation of every word belonging to the set covered by such pattern. Yes, they reinforce the correct pronunciation of every word that such pattern relate to. It's like picking up a habit.
But teachers don't create any pathway for their students to follow. Why's that? Well, the vast majority of them lack an effective input-based teaching methodology and are not particularly good at pronunciation themselves. They've been schooled in what output-based, old-fashioned, sloppy ELT literature focuses on: grammar exercises, translations, etc. Pronunciation has never been a major concern there, so they don't understand its importance, and they in fact never mastered it to any significant level.
They just go on victimizing their students in the same fashion they were victimized. A veritable loop of incompetence generating further incompetence.
Only a tiny minority of people can think outside the box. Similarly, only a tiny minority on English teachers can realize how ineffective "traditional" teaching strategies are and move on to a more empowering methodology.
Sad but true.
Salvete atque valete omnes,
Achab
Here in Italy, high school English teachers provide basically no instruction at all on pronunciation. Believe me, not an effing single class on how to sound out words correctly.
The results? Students pronounce one out of every two English words incorrectly. For real.
As HappyHippo's noticed, whenever they say OF, it's invariably as if they're saying OFF.
Also, whenever they say a word ending in -ING, LOL, they have just no idea that the final G is more or less silent.
Half the words they say out loud, they mispronounce them, and even worse, several of their mispronunciations are systematic errors!
No one at school ever stopped them and made them aware of what's going on. Never.
This is particularly outrageous in that the very fact that those mistakes are systematic ones means that they could be corrected away probably by one single pronunciation lesson focusing on them.
When you teach a student that whenever a word ending in -ING is encountered they must not pronounce the final G, you create a pathway they can follow, a pathway towards correctly pronouncing a whole set of words.
I just don't see a student making the mistake over and over again if you teach them the right pattern. The more the student follows the pattern, the more they reinforce the correct pronunciation of every word belonging to the set covered by such pattern. Yes, they reinforce the correct pronunciation of every word that such pattern relate to. It's like picking up a habit.
But teachers don't create any pathway for their students to follow. Why's that? Well, the vast majority of them lack an effective input-based teaching methodology and are not particularly good at pronunciation themselves. They've been schooled in what output-based, old-fashioned, sloppy ELT literature focuses on: grammar exercises, translations, etc. Pronunciation has never been a major concern there, so they don't understand its importance, and they in fact never mastered it to any significant level.
They just go on victimizing their students in the same fashion they were victimized. A veritable loop of incompetence generating further incompetence.
Only a tiny minority of people can think outside the box. Similarly, only a tiny minority on English teachers can realize how ineffective "traditional" teaching strategies are and move on to a more empowering methodology.
Sad but true.
Salvete atque valete omnes,
Achab
>>What does either amuse or irritate most of my fellow Brits (not just Scots) is when they say "Eye-ran" and "Eye-rack" for Iran and Iraq. Call it British prejudice if you like (and most probably it is) but it just sounds so.....well, so American! On a par with saying "Edin-BURROW" (eeks!) or "Birming-HAM" or "Mos-COW" (as in the animal).<<
Actually, we'd say "EDIN-burg" ourselves (for me [ˈɜːdn̩ːb̥ʁ̩(ː)g̥] or [ˈɜːnːb̥ʁ̩(ː)g̥]). :D
Actually, we'd say "EDIN-burg" ourselves (for me [ˈɜːdn̩ːb̥ʁ̩(ː)g̥] or [ˈɜːnːb̥ʁ̩(ː)g̥]). :D
Do you think you could post a recording of yourself saying 'vehicle' with the 'h' sound?
I say EDIN-bur-ruh.
<<Here in Italy, high school English teachers provide basically no instruction at all on pronunciation. Believe me, not an effing single class on how to sound out words correctly.>>
Achab, really? Then it's not just my impression. In my experience (in Italy), no non-native teacher is skilled enough. The way English is taught is just ridiculous. In brief: 0% exposure to real English, 0% teaching pronunciation, 100% grammar based tests (learn prescriptive rule by heart, then apply it systematically in artificial contexts), 100% boredom due to ridiculous topics no one is interested in.
I personally consider the epitome of Italian English the vowel /ɪ/. I have never heard any Italian, student or teacher, use that vowel. Of course they don't use schwas either, but I just like to hear how everyone pronounces "It is..." as "Eat ease..." - "Where do you leave?" - Never heard of anyone that makes a distinction between "live" and "leave". Pronunciation is just not taught. I had to learn "real" English by myself and forget all the nonsense I was used to.
<<Here in Italy, high school English teachers provide basically no instruction at all on pronunciation. Believe me, not an effing single class on how to sound out words correctly.>>
Achab, really? Then it's not just my impression. In my experience (in Italy), no non-native teacher is skilled enough. The way English is taught is just ridiculous. In brief: 0% exposure to real English, 0% teaching pronunciation, 100% grammar based tests (learn prescriptive rule by heart, then apply it systematically in artificial contexts), 100% boredom due to ridiculous topics no one is interested in.
I personally consider the epitome of Italian English the vowel /ɪ/. I have never heard any Italian, student or teacher, use that vowel. Of course they don't use schwas either, but I just like to hear how everyone pronounces "It is..." as "Eat ease..." - "Where do you leave?" - Never heard of anyone that makes a distinction between "live" and "leave". Pronunciation is just not taught. I had to learn "real" English by myself and forget all the nonsense I was used to.
I don't know why is that. French professors like teaching pronunciation (French phonetics and phonology ) but most English professors in Europe just don't like teaching English phonetics and phonology as if English were one of the easiest languages to pronounce. That's why most foreign speakers of French (and German) sound much more ''native'' than foreign speakers of English. One of the things I don't like is the same vowel being used for the ''mother'' set (mother, sun, fun) and the ''father'' set (father, sparkle): most Europeans use [ä] in both, so ''mother'' rhymes with brother and father. Or they pronounce both ''lust'' and ''last'' as [läst].
And that's the thing - of languages spoken in Europe, the only ones with vowel systems truly similar to those of English are the other Germanic languages, their specific differences aside. To individuals whose native languages are not Germanic languages, even amongst just languages in Europe, I myself would perceive English vowel phonology as definitely being quite hard, not easy (in particular due to the nature of tenseness versus laxness in English).
When talking Standard English, I say 'Edinburuh'
When talking in colloquial English, I say 'Edinbruh'
When talking in colloquial English, I say 'Edinbruh'
I'm American, but I pronounce it as [ˈɛdn̩bɜ˞ə], roughly equivalent to the British pronunciation. As another example, I would pronounce Warwick, England as [ˈwɒ:ɹɪk] ("worrick") and Warwick, Rhode Island as [ˈwɔɚwɪk] ("war-wick").
<<As a Scot I can definitely confirm that very few of my fellow Scots pronounce the "r" in iron. "Eye-un" is the most usual pronunciation.>>
Do you not find a difference between the first syllable and that in "Eye"? For me (in Northumberland), even though the "r" is not pronounced, the first syllable is pronounced as though it were: more like in "siren" than "lion". I was wondering if there was a similar thing on the other side of the border.
Do you not find a difference between the first syllable and that in "Eye"? For me (in Northumberland), even though the "r" is not pronounced, the first syllable is pronounced as though it were: more like in "siren" than "lion". I was wondering if there was a similar thing on the other side of the border.
>> I'm from Southern California, and we definitely pronounce the H in "vehicle." <<
>>No, the vast majority of us do not. You may, though.<<
I also pronounce the H in vehicle, though it is not emphasized. This is how I have typically heard it pronounced in the United States.
>>No, the vast majority of us do not. You may, though.<<
I also pronounce the H in vehicle, though it is not emphasized. This is how I have typically heard it pronounced in the United States.
Damian in Ed'n-brrruh said:
<What does either amuse or irritate most of my fellow Brits (not just Scots) is when they say "Eye-ran" and "Eye-rack" for Iran and Iraq.>
On the other hand, a lot of British people say "Haemass" instead of "Hamas" and "Americur" instead of "America".
Achab said:
<Also, whenever they say a word ending in -ING, LOL, they have just no idea that the final G is more or less silent.>
No, it's definitely not silent. It's not quite the same sound as in "Gate", but it is there.
HappyHippo's
<One of the things I don't like is the same vowel being used for the ''mother'' set (mother, sun, fun) and the ''father'' set (father, sparkle): most Europeans use [ä] in both, so ''mother'' rhymes with brother and father. Or they pronounce both ''lust'' and ''last'' as [läst].>
In my dialect, "mother" and "brother" do rhyme.
<What does either amuse or irritate most of my fellow Brits (not just Scots) is when they say "Eye-ran" and "Eye-rack" for Iran and Iraq.>
On the other hand, a lot of British people say "Haemass" instead of "Hamas" and "Americur" instead of "America".
Achab said:
<Also, whenever they say a word ending in -ING, LOL, they have just no idea that the final G is more or less silent.>
No, it's definitely not silent. It's not quite the same sound as in "Gate", but it is there.
HappyHippo's
<One of the things I don't like is the same vowel being used for the ''mother'' set (mother, sun, fun) and the ''father'' set (father, sparkle): most Europeans use [ä] in both, so ''mother'' rhymes with brother and father. Or they pronounce both ''lust'' and ''last'' as [läst].>
In my dialect, "mother" and "brother" do rhyme.