English is spoken better by the English

purgatory   Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:43 pm GMT
<<Gregorvitch- You do have a point that Americans often only portray their better side to the world at large (as best we can, anyway). I just don't understand the condemnation we get for this. What's the point in dwelling on the negatives and portraying ourselves as a boozy, pot-smoking, underpaid, non-insured, racist, gun-toting, prejudiced people? Sure, a minority are, but why are we going to show the world that side?
>>


Yes but they are too hypocritical. They only show their good side but blame other countries for everything. They are shocked when Russians defend Lenin and Stalin and when Chinese defend communism. So Hiroshima saved American lives? Ok, maybe it did. But Stalin also saved Russian lives, therefore he must be good right! Sure he killed millions of his own people, but if he hadn't been there maybe millions more would have died under the Germans! LOL!
Beathag   Fri Jul 31, 2009 10:37 pm GMT
>>Yes but they are too hypocritical. They only show their good side but blame other countries for everything. They are shocked when Russians defend Lenin and Stalin and when Chinese defend communism. So Hiroshima saved American lives? Ok, maybe it did. But Stalin also saved Russian lives, therefore he must be good right! Sure he killed millions of his own people, but if he hadn't been there maybe millions more would have died under the Germans! LOL!<<

Yeah man, he killed HIS own people. Hiroshima didn't kill Americans to save more Americans. Japan was given an ultimatum, which they ignored, and we simply acted on it.

"On July 26, Truman and other allied leaders issued the Potsdam Declaration outlining terms of surrender for Japan. It was presented as an ultimatum and stated that without a surrender, the Allies would attack Japan, resulting in "the inevitable and complete destruction of the Japanese armed forces and just as inevitably the utter devastation of the Japanese homeland". The atomic bomb was not mentioned in the communique. On July 28, Japanese papers reported that the declaration had been rejected by the Japanese government. That afternoon, Prime Minister Kantaro Suzuki declared at a press conference that the Potsdam Declaration was no more than a rehash (yakinaoshi) of the Cairo Declaration and that the government intended to ignore it (mokusatsu lit. "kill by silence").[16] The statement was taken by both Japanese and foreign papers as a clear rejection of the declaration. Emperor Hirohito, who was waiting for a Soviet reply to noncommittal Japanese peace feelers, made no move to change the government position.[17] On July 31, he made clear to his advisor Kōichi Kido that the Imperial Regalia of Japan had to be defended at all costs.[18]

In early July, on his way to Potsdam, Truman had re-examined the decision to use the bomb. In the end, Truman made the decision to drop the atomic bombs on Japan. His stated intention in ordering the bombings was to bring about a quick resolution of the war by inflicting destruction and instilling fear of further destruction in sufficient strength to cause Japan to surrender.[19]"

We may not have mentioned the bomb, but we meant what we said.
Thing is, that these days most politicians really are all talk because they know what kind of destruction we can render. Everyone talks big, but is afraid to act because you might just be condemning your enemy and yourself.
Rene   Sat Aug 01, 2009 3:18 am GMT
Purgatory-- Alright, our government does set itself up in judgement and spin things to manipulate, but that's politics. I think you're confusing politics with the attitudes of the actual people. Do you realize that less than 50% of citizens vote? That on any given day you can walk into a grocery store/ restaurant/ bar/ just about anywhere and hear people say they've given up all hope on a government too corrupt to change? Do you know that Obama's Healthcare plan, promoted as a liberal, social welfare program will put hundreds of thousands out of work- people who are considered collateral damage? The patriotic, nationalistic front that America upholds is not the real deal, and any actual American can tell you that.
Jasper   Sat Aug 01, 2009 7:10 am GMT
"Do you know that Obama's Healthcare plan, promoted as a liberal, social welfare program will put hundreds of thousands out of work"

Rene, I'm having a great deal of trouble believing this. How could a government health-care program put people out of work?
gregorvitch   Sat Aug 01, 2009 1:17 pm GMT
beathag

"we simply acted on it"

That is quite an offensive way to put it, there was nothing simple about it you make it sound as if the American people are a superior race able to destroy any country who disobeys them. (and from their track record we can see thats what they like to do).

The bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki sparked the arms race, divided the world into two polar extremes and nearly brought about nuclear annihilation. Oh and in reference to Stalins purges, you do remeber that during that period Mcarthy was persecuting anyone and everyone whom he could exploit to further his own political career. he ruined peoples lifes, black listed celebrities and restricted the freedoms which Americans so love to boast about.
Rene   Sat Aug 01, 2009 2:22 pm GMT
Jasper, let me put it this way. If this bill passes, the majority of small buisnesses won't be able to foot insurance for their employees. My uncle, for one will probably have to lay off a worker, and for him, the decreased work could lead to him losing his buisness. As for myself, there's a reason my employer hires everyone part time- 28 hours per week. Once they have to foot a health an insurance bill, a quarter of us will get the sack. You must have a nice job.
Damian London SW15   Sat Aug 01, 2009 2:52 pm GMT
The United Kingdom has a National Health Service which provides universal healthcare for everyone, free at the point of issue, but it is, of course, paid for out of our taxes, in this case through a payment scheme called National Insurance Contributions. These NIC payments are automatically deducted from the salaries and wages of every employee irrespective of employer, the amounts deducted being based on the employee's level of income and therefore the sums due are on a sliding scale. The higher the income the higher the amounts deducted from pay up to a maximum figure.

At the same time all employers make similar contributions to the NIC scheme, these being at a higher rate than the employees' contributions.

This how the British National Health Service is financed. This covers all consultations with your registered doctors at their surgeries (everybody is required to register with a doctor - General Practitioner - a GP, and all hospital treatments, and the NHS covers practically all medical conditions. This covers all UK citizens, and all European countries have similar schemes providing universal healthcare.

All UK citizens visiting any other EU country is strongly advised to obtain a European Health Insurance Card (EHIC) as this will automatically ensure, on presentation to the medical centres/hospitals, either free medical treatment or greatly reduced cost medical treatment in the event of any such necessity in any of these EU countries. I shall make sure I carry my EHIC when I go across to the Continent for five days later this month. The UK reciprocates in a similar way.

All medical and emergency treatments carried out at any A & E Department (Accident and Emergency) attached to all hospitals in the UK are free to anyone needing such treatment, irrespective or nationality or circumstances. People not requiring hospital admission simply get treated then sent on their way again. Sadly, and on the theme of the UK's binge drinking problem which has been under discussion in this Forum, about 70% of all treatments carried out at our A&E Departments are alcohol related!

Many people in the UK feeling very strongly about this and are calling for a complete change of policy on the issue of "self inflicted" injuries resulting from the abuse of alcohol or drugs, whether at A&E Depts or anywhere else covered by the NHS, whereby all such "patients" are charged for all their treatment, and I fully endorse this.

Of course, anyone receiving treatment under the UK NHS, other than at A&E, and who is not a UK citizen, is liable for all costs involved and is charged accordingly. EU citizens covered by the EHIC scheme I mentioned are either charged at much reduced rates or allowed free treatment altogether.

Regarding medical prescriptions issued to patients by doctors in the UK are free for about 70% of the population - exempt from such charges are all people of both genders over 60, pregnant women, the registered unemployed, and people suffering from a pretty wide range of medical conditions. For the remainging 30%, including myself, all such medical prescriptions are subject to a current charge of £7.20 payable direct to the NHS via the pharmacy on collection.

However, in Wales ALL medical prescriptions are free to everyone, regardless of personal circumstances. The same will apply in Scotland next year, and now moves are afoot to all our friends down here in England to be granted the same facility....no more paying for your medicines at the pharmacies. It's quite an anomaly really, isn't it? Treatment and consulations are free, but all medicines are subject to this £7.20 per item prescription charge. The Welsh got rid of it, the Scots soon will, and the English will follow suit later....always last are the English! ;-)

Of course British people can pay for full private health cover either in addition to or instead of the NHS scheme, and there is a range of Medical Insurance schemes providing this cover, and providing all the regular premiums are paid their treatment at all the private hospitals outside the NHS is covered, subject to all the conditions of the policy.

Europeans generally are fortunate not to have the same stress and concern very many Americans seem to have over the cost of medical bills etc. Hopefully that may be a thing of the past in due time if the American people can overcome their aversion to anything considered even remotely "socialist!" ;-) Old Obama does seem hell bent.....I hope he succeeds.

By the way - the "loss of jobs" issue raised above.....the British National Health Service is easily the largest employer, with more employees, than any other organisation in the UK!
Beathag   Sat Aug 01, 2009 2:56 pm GMT
>>"we simply acted on it"

That is quite an offensive way to put it, there was nothing simple about it you make it sound as if the American people are a superior race able to destroy any country who disobeys them. (and from their track record we can see thats what they like to do).

The bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki sparked the arms race, divided the world into two polar extremes and nearly brought about nuclear annihilation. Oh and in reference to Stalins purges, you do remeber that during that period Mcarthy was persecuting anyone and everyone whom he could exploit to further his own political career. he ruined peoples lifes, black listed celebrities and restricted the freedoms which Americans so love to boast about. <<

The McCarthy witch hunts are infamous- he ruined many a good reputation. Oh, and HOW IS THAT SUPPOSED TO COMPARE TO MURDERING YOUR OWN PEOPLE?? It doesn't. Please, make a better point.
America isn't a superior race- you can complain about the bombing all you want, it's your opinion. But my opinion is that there is nothing wrong with making a warning that isn't empty- one which saved my grandpa's lives. You don't think that far. Me- I am taking my family into account. Several members of my family were left crippled or dead. I see nothing wrong with being glad to save our troops.
Truman was horrified by what he did. But I think of my parent's having the chance to have such great dads around and I am certainly grateful. I really loved my grandpas. And my great-uncles who survived.
Look, I don't want us all to destroy ourselves either. In case you are reading into that- I don't feel that way. But I'm not going to sit here and blast my country for what I think President Truman really saw as a way to ending any more conflict between us and Japan.

>>Purgatory-- Alright, our government does set itself up in judgement and spin things to manipulate, but that's politics. I think you're confusing politics with the attitudes of the actual people. Do you realize that less than 50% of citizens vote? That on any given day you can walk into a grocery store/ restaurant/ bar/ just about anywhere and hear people say they've given up all hope on a government too corrupt to change? Do you know that Obama's Healthcare plan, promoted as a liberal, social welfare program will put hundreds of thousands out of work- people who are considered collateral damage? The patriotic, nationalistic front that America upholds is not the real deal, and any actual American can tell you that. <<

This is true too. I vote- am good about it. But I know so many that don't. And the ones who do are always "which is the lesser evil?". Because we all really believe in the scientific fact that scum always rises to the top lol.
Beathag   Sat Aug 01, 2009 3:09 pm GMT
Damien, I've heard the good (from my friends in Glasgow) and the bad (from their friends- the natives Glaswegians) about NHS. But mostly good. Lol, they wish America had something more like NHS.
Rene   Sat Aug 01, 2009 3:36 pm GMT
For all the complaints I've heard about the NHS, Damian, it sounds pretty nice to me. I recently tore my quad muscle, but at the time I wasn't sure what I did. Torn muscles are supposed to quit hurting after 2 days, so on the fifth day that I was still in pain bad enough to almost be in tears and forced to take of work, I briefly considered going to a doctor, to make sure I didn't do anything too serious. However, a visit to a GP is $90.00 in the door and you can pretty much count on about $300 for the ER around here. Then comes a possible prescription, which usually runs about a $100. So, I decided to tough it out, and after two weeks, it's still a little tweaked, but it's fine.
gregorvitch   Sat Aug 01, 2009 4:25 pm GMT
beathag

If you didn't have a personal connection to soldiers would you value their lives over the lives of innocent civillians ?. Hiroshima could have been justified had it had a large military presence, however this wasn't the case the Hiroshima military contingent consisted of a logistics and supply base. a total of 80 000 people were killed the majority being civilians.

as for your comments about Truman just read this quote and reaise that he was more concerned about himself rather than the attrocity he just committed

"the world will note that the first atomic bomb was dropped on Hiroshima, a military base. That was because we wished in this first attack to avoid, insofar as possible, the killing of civilians."

— Harry S. Truman, in a speech from the White House, Aug 9, 1945.

As for the NHS though it may provide nationwide cover it is full of flaws, the news is allways reporting how it is failing us (i do apreaciate it's presence and some problems are caused by under funding but others are caused by staff mistakes)

for example in relation to the recent Swine flu epidemic a 17 year old girl went into her local clinic saying that she was feeling ill she was diagnosed with swine flu and sent home, her condition worsened and she was forced to lie to paramedics about having an overdose so that they would take her to hospital, she was left in a room for an hour an a half all the time calling for a doctor, who never came she was sent home again, her conditioned worsened further she was rushed to hospital where she was finally diagnosed with her actual ailment menigitis at this point she had a 50-50 chance of surviving.

as for the view that drug addicts and alcoholics should have to pay for thier treatment, i doubt it would be possible as they would be spending what little money they had on thier addiction and would by no means have the necessary funds to pay expensive medical bills. However i assume you are referring to the binge drinkers who injure themselves and others unfortunately denying service to one group would probably lead to descrimination against another group perhaps smokers who need Cancer treatment or Fat people who have heart problems .
Damian London SW15   Sat Aug 01, 2009 4:44 pm GMT
Rene - you poor wee thing! Let's hope it's a (unncessary!) case of "heal thyself!" very, very soon.

Of course the NHS has its shortcomings - for one thing it is very much abused, not least of all by SOME of the immigrants - and tourists! - and others - who take advantage of the NHS in ways it simply wasn't designed for in the first place, and who are not officially entitled to the benefits the NHS provides.

No matter how good or efficient any organistion is, you will always get complaints from people. Waiting lists are the biggest gripes where the NHS is concerned, but when it does get round to treatment and healing processes, it's almost always very effective and efficient...eventually.

As a result there are waiting lists for many of the less serious, non-urgent, treatments that are longer than they should be, but recent changes in policy are reducing these waiting times now. Those A&E Departments I told you about really ARE abused by far too many people, such as drunks, druggies and people who have been injured in wanton violence. These are the very people who should be made to pay for their treatment at A&Es... on the spot, even if it means marching the buggers to the nearest ATM and if they don't have their cards with them then they should be subjected the full course of the law.

If some people consider this to be a "right wing reaction" then so be it....it's the only thing that's going to solve the problem with people abusing the system, whether it's the NHS or the social welfare programs, and we have many people who are "working the system" there, all paid for out of the hard earned taxes of the British workforce, and when I see monthly deductions from my salary for Income Tax and National Insurance Contributions I tend to see a sort of red mist before my blue eyes! ;-)

No, I do not like the present Labour Government as they have been responsible for much of what has happened in this direction over the past 12 years, but that does not automatically mean I support the Conservative Party....somebody in this Forum asked me that one. Since the early 19th century the ballot in the UK as in every other democracy is a private matter. ;-)

I'm proud to be a Scot and even though I like some of their policies I do not support the Scottish National Party either! But that doesn't stop me displaying the Saltire emblem on my car registration plate!

As to which party I will support come General Election day in the UK in the spring of 2010 is something that will involve just me and the polling booth. I don't even give my Voter's Registration number to those different party tellers outside the polling station on election days as it's none of the bloody business......nobody is obliged to tell them anything, so in very polite terms I wish them a happy day and that's all.
Jasper   Sat Aug 01, 2009 5:41 pm GMT
Rene, your description of Obama's plan does not match my understanding of it. To be fair, I have not seen a copy of it.

My understanding is that the government is going to offer everybody its own health insurance plan, and you will get to choose between its plan and a private health insurance. If you already have good insurance, you can keep it, but if you don't, you can sign up for the government one.

This will be a great boon to the uninsurable and to the unemployed. In my own case, I think I would choose to keep my own insurance, since it's a good one.

I have not heard yet on how this government plan is going to get paid for, but keep in mind that a lot of American companies moved TO Canada, because it was cheaper for them—they no longer had to offer the workers health insurance...
Andy   Sat Aug 01, 2009 5:56 pm GMT
I prefer American English because it's much easier to understand and is more phonetic than British English. And even though there are regional variations in the USA, they're still a heck of a lot easier to understand than say Cockney English.
gregorvitch   Sat Aug 01, 2009 5:59 pm GMT
damian

Gladstone introduced the secret ballot act in 1872 that would be the late 19th century and even then voters were still influenced by bribery and intimidation.

As a scot i find your attitude bemusing i can only guess that you are a middle class scot who didn't feel the impact of right-wing policies on your country. during the 90s scottish ship yards were closed down and industrial contracts were given to other countries as a result scotland's job market was severly reduced the youth could either turn to dead-end jobs or the drug business.

oh and how would a conversation would a comatose a&e patient go "i'm sorry looks like your going to die because you have insufficient funds". anger at immigrants, moaning about where your hard-earned money is going you sure do sound like a nationalist