Spanish Verbs vs. French Verbs

Shaun   Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:24 pm GMT
OK. This really makes me want to scream. I've gotten the impression that many, many people who are only educated a little bit in both or one of the languages get the impression that French is way harder than Spanish.

As someone who has academically had to learn both and is now fluent (in both), I just want to say that this is completely false! As a preface to the rest of this argument, I just want to say that I am not commenting on the merit or beauty of the languages because both are very beautiful and worth equal amounts, in different ways of course.


Foregoing all arguments about pronunciation (in which French is more difficult), prepositions and adverbs (where probably both are equally difficult), and pronouns (where French may have the slightest more difficulty mainly due to y and en), I mainly want to focus on verbs.


Spanish verb conjugation is harder than French. There I said it.
It really is, though. French may start off harder at first, especially with orthography being a problem, however the difficulty beings to level off fairly quickly (once you get past the passe simple, or written past, and the some of the compound subjunctive constructions like the imperfect subjunctive). Again, I'm not arguing vocabulary, orthography, or any other aspects.

Here is a basic rundown of why Spanish verbs are more difficult:

1) There are two verbs for to be: ser and estar. French has one, etre (I'm typing fast so sorry for mising the circumflex and other diacritical marks coming up).
While not extremely complicated, this can cause more confusion and difficulties in Spanish (dealing with temporary vs. permanent conditions, and idioms such as 'Estoy muerto' rather than 'Soy muerto')... not to mention more conjugations for the two verbs ser and estar (and both are irregular).

2) Even though the spoken french past (passe compose) is a compound tense, and deciding between etre and avoir can cause the beginner trouble, the preterito in Spanish is still harder IMO. It has way more irregulars than the passe compose and Spanish still has the past perfect tenses and the imperfect just like French. The written past can be trouble in French, but you mainly just need to recognize it, not know the conjugations by heart.

3) Probably the biggest reason of all: the Subjunctive. First of all, conjugation of the subjunctive is SLIGHTLY more rigorous in Spanish than French. In fact, the French subjunctive is fairly easy provided you know your present tense well. I'm not exactly sure about the number of irregulars in each, but they are at least the same, if not, Spanish has more.

Even more important, however, is that the subjunctive is used in more obscure places in Spanish than in French. Both use it quite extensively, but Spanish even more so. Sometimes you don't even need a 'que' in Spanish and it will still be triggered (a word that's usually necessary in both languages). In French, it is rare (perhaps impossible... can someone correct me on this?) to do a subjunctive without a 'que'. There are also more exceptions, more nuanced situations, and more colloquialisms that use the subjunctive in Spanish rather than French.

4) Commands. French commands are relatively easy. There are three irregular ones. Spanish commands have four times as many irregulars and verbs are more rigorous when switching between negative and positive commands. Also, even though pronouns are added to the end of both, they are not hyphenated in Spanish like they are in French... which would not be a big deal, except that it changes the accent-orthography of the verb in Spanish which can make spelling tricky (almost the only time spelling is hard in Spanish!).


That's about it. Anything else someone can think of would be appreciated.
Shaun   Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:46 pm GMT
OH... I forogt a couple of big ones.

5) Spanish is a pro-drop language whereas French is not. This is more difficult.

6) Spanish has more words for you... four, up to five depending on which country you're in.
K. T.   Fri Aug 07, 2009 3:42 am GMT
One issue I had with Spanish is the lack of a standard accent used by teachers in the US. Students learn what the teacher knows. If there is a new teacher the next semester, the student may get a new accent.

In French, we knew that Parisian French was the standard.

You hit most of the big points. They are basically the same as far as difficulty. French is harder to pronounce at first, so that's why people think it's "hard". It makes no sense unless someone explains the spelling, the different nasal sounds, etc.

Spanish gets trickier/more difficult as the student moves past the present and past tenses. If you think "subjunctive" means scary in Spanish, Portuguese will take you to the house of horrors. Just kidding.

Mostly what I've learned is that every language has areas that seem formidable. Happily, I did not know how difficult certain languages were when I started them, lol. I enjoyed them enough to stay the course with them.

That's the situation with French and Spanish too. I would tell anyone who is in high school and has access to both languages that he/she should study them both. They are similar and different.

You won't realize this until after you have a good grasp on these languages. Spanish will be the "easy" language and French for "smart kids" or "rich kids" or some other description. Latin is for the real brains, btw, lol.
Hilbert   Fri Aug 07, 2009 4:17 am GMT
<<Spanish will be the "easy" language and French for "smart kids" or "rich kids" or some other description. Latin is for the real brains, btw, lol. >>


When I was at school (Australia) it was more like:

Spanish: for the adventurous, or salsa-loving people. Spanish was relatively new at that time so the myth about it being 'easy' was really neither here nor there. I think French and Spanish were considered equally easy/hard.

French: the standard language. If you didn't know what one to pick, you picked French, because 'that's what everyone else is doing'. Most girls picked French where as guys tended to go for Spanish or Japanese.

Japanese: for people of Asian descent, anime nerds. Only people who were interested in it did it because it was considered 'hard-out'.

However the general perception was that all languages were relatively easy (not to actually learn the language, of course, but easy to pass and relatively 'light' subjects).
PARISIEN   Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:40 am GMT
"In French, it is rare (perhaps impossible... can someone correct me on this?) to do a subjunctive without a 'que'."

- C'est rare. Ça ne survit que dans certaines expressions toutes faites ("soit", "vaille que vaille", où le subjonctif est intrinsèquement distingué de l'indicatif), d'autres d'autres où l'élision du "que" produit une saveur délibérément médiévale : "le Diable l'emporte !", "Fasse le Ciel", "Dieu vous entende", "maudit sois-tu, puisses-tu ne jamais revenir".

Et n'oublions pas : "Honni soit qui mal y pense".

C'est la même intention archaïsante et poétique qu'on retrouve dans ces vers de "Marieke", de Jacques Brel :

"Revienne le temps
De Bruges à Gand".

Mais c'est clair qu'en langage parlé normal, on dit "que revienne le temps".
???   Fri Aug 07, 2009 3:42 pm GMT
But isn't gender much more predictable in Spanish and negation simpler?
Shaun   Fri Aug 07, 2009 4:20 pm GMT
Merci pour votre aide. j'ai oublié considérer la poésie, mais c'est ce que je croyais. Je comprends mieux maintentant. Merci bien!
Shaun   Fri Aug 07, 2009 4:21 pm GMT
It's true gender is more predictable in Spanish and negation is simpler, but that speaks to those things which I wasn't considering. In the end, the two languages still equal out in difficulty IMO.
matko   Fri Aug 07, 2009 9:35 pm GMT
i totally agree with shaun. I studied both Spanish and French philology and I must say that Spanish verb system is more complex than the French one.
Since I speak better Spanish because I started learning it before and I've never "seen" French until I got enroled to the University, but the tenses, the subjunctive mode and ser/estar are much more difficult.
The only harder thing, IMO, in French are the negation, en/y and pronunciation.
Me   Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:03 pm GMT
Estoy muerto is not an idiom, what makes you think that?
**   Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:26 pm GMT
Me cachis, si estás muerto es porque estarías vivo antes , ¿no?. De todas formas lo muertos no hablan ni responden a mensajes,jeje.

For Spanish speakers is very different :
* soy guapo : it's my nature to be beautiful.
* Estoy guapo: Maybe yesterday i wasn't beautiful.

Ok there are some other nuances but i think it's not very complicated.

I agree ,however, that spanish verbs are really hard to learn.

Hey pero todo no iba a ser coser y cantar. Spanish teachers need to eat every day.
gilipollas   Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:52 pm GMT
In any case, the verb system in both languages is dead simple compared to say, Slavic languages.
Shaun   Fri Aug 07, 2009 11:04 pm GMT
to Me,

Apologies. I shouldn't have said idiom... I meant exception. (Being that death is a permanent condition and would normally be preceded by 'ser', however it is, obviously, not).
ember   Sat Aug 08, 2009 3:58 pm GMT
In any case, the verb system in both languages is dead simple compared to say, Slavic languages

This is ridiculous! Some slavic languages are light easier than the latin languages as far verbs as concerned, for instance Russian has fewer tenses, the only difficult thing in slavic languages are the verbal aspect and verbs of motion.

As for Spanish and French verbs, I think French compound tenses are much difficult and predictable than the Spanish ones... Spanish makes use of just one auxiliary (haber), the past participle is generally regular and you don't need to make the past participle agree with the subject...
Finally take a look at the simple past, It's true that it's only used in written in French, but it's much more irregular than the spanish counterpart...Anyway I have to admit that the subjunctive mood is a breeze in French compared to the Spanish one....
Shaun   Sat Aug 08, 2009 5:03 pm GMT
I would argue about which of the simple pasts is more irregular! I've read a lot of literature in French, and I still think the Spanish simple past is more irregular! Adding to that the fact that it's spoken and used in conjunction with the past perfect (much like English).

We could always do a count - the major five hundred or so verbs from each language. :P But for now let's just agree to disagree!