Let's give Spanish a second thought

office cat   Sat Sep 19, 2009 3:50 am GMT
From what I understand, the old strategy that Spain employed to spread its language was to brand it as the language of culture. But it's not a secret that today, too few people care about culture. Now it's all about utility and economic gain. Spain sees this and now tries to promote Spanish as a useful language, giving all the facts about the numerous hispanic countries, fairly large number of organizations where Spanish is an official language, etc. But the truth is, the vast majority of people whom I met never got the opportunity to use their Spanish without having to go to a hispanic country. My friends from Eastern Europe who learned Spanish found it useless, save those who ended up working in Spain. German is significantly more demanded in business. My American friends who learned Spanish, even those who working travel companies, found no use for their knowledge whatsoever. I can speak in similar fashion about Germany and Canada, although my experience in those countries is rather limited.

To me, the only real, substantial reason for learning Spanish was the ability to read Allende and Hernández and watch Buñuel and Godard; to travel to Spain on my own and learn as much as possible about that wonderful country. If I was thinking in terms of usefulness, I would have picked French or German without hesitation.

Have the readers of this forum had a similar experience with Spanish? What are your thoughts?
Ferdinand   Sat Sep 19, 2009 3:51 am GMT
"If I was thinking in terms of usefulness" I will learn Mandarin Chinese ; ()
T.K.   Sat Sep 19, 2009 3:52 am GMT
I took French and Spanish because they were the foreign languages offered at my high school. They also had Latin, but they were doing away with the dead language... Of course, Latin is popular again in my city and I'm just a barbarian because I don't know it. There may even be a Latin school or two here. Any day now, I reckon we'll see centurions in the Wal*mart! I hope they aren't zombies. It's bound to happen when you resurrect dead languages. Oh wait, maybe not. Moses didn't come back with Hebrew.

Oh yeah, Spanish.

My experience has been different.

I have spoken both French and Spanish recently. French is more common for me to use. I've used both languages with patients and immigrants over the years.

I can go to a German restaurant if I want to speak German, but I don't use it nearly as often. If I wanted to speak it more, I could try the Verein in town.

Usually I can find people who speak a language I'm learning or a language I know, but then I tend to learn languages for the purpose of communication-not so much to read literature (but it's a great perk if there are great books in the language).
g-unit   Sat Sep 19, 2009 3:53 am GMT
I can attest that Spanish is very useful and popular in Eastern Europe (more so than French, for the better or the worse). In the US, depending on where you live, you encounter Spanish every day.
He-Man   Sat Sep 19, 2009 3:56 am GMT
It's funny how for Spaniards, Spain=government. I heard tales of how much corruption there is in Spain, but turns out it's in the minds of its citizens too.
Spaz   Sat Sep 19, 2009 3:57 am GMT
The importance of Spanish outside Spanish-speaking countries has been sinking in recent years. We no never hear the Olympic results announced in Spanish, the Eurovision song-contest has relegated the language to non-token status and I suspect Spanish is also becoming less and less unknown in EU political circles. What about staff on the Eurostar? Do they have to get educated about the existence of Spanish nowadays?
Francialamierdamasgranded   Sat Sep 19, 2009 4:01 am GMT
Stupid french if you're gonna troll out the Spanish language at least be original.

The original french thread wasn't made by a Spaniard but of course you couldn't take the reality from somebody else.
Xanadu   Sat Sep 19, 2009 4:06 am GMT
Seriously, the only people who embarrass themselves more than the Spanish-speaking trolls are the French. You'd expect them to be somewhat smarter, having a far more advanced culture, but I guess human folly takes the better of us all.
j-unit   Sat Sep 19, 2009 6:07 am GMT
I can attest that French is very useful and popular in Eastern Europe (while Spanish is not, for the better or the worse). In the US, depending on where you live, you encounter French every day.
Visitor   Sat Sep 19, 2009 6:17 am GMT
<< I can attest that Spanish is very useful and popular in Eastern Europe (more so than French, for the better or the worse). In the US, depending on where you live, you encounter Spanish every day. >>

PROVE IT! WITH THE FOLLOWING INFORMATION, I DON'T THINK SO.

IS SPANISH INTEGRATED IN EASTERN EUROPEAN CURRICULUM? NEVER!

ALBANIA
Education 1st or 2nd foreign language, according to the curriculum of the student.

Number and percentage of students learning French:
* At the primary level: 11,340 (early French)
* At the secondary level: 115,600 (25%)
* At the university level: 12,000 (in 5 universities)

Many teachers of French as a foreign language: about 600

French presence in the country: about 30% of the population has learned French and speak more or less.

Accession of Albania to the status of associate member of the OIF
National de la Francophonie
Universities (Polytechnic and Tirana) members of the AUPELF-UREF
Municipality of Tirana, a member of the AIMF
Membership of a group of parliamentarians at the APF
Forum Francophone des Affaires

French presence in the media:
* TV5 taken by radio in a dozen cities
* IFC Films subtitled in Albanian national television
* RFI on the FM band in Tirana
* Daily Bulletin in French of the Albanian Telegraphic Agency
* All channels and French satellite

Cultural Institutions:
* 2 Alliances Françaises: Tirana and Korca
* 2 antennas: Shkoder and Elbasan


BULGARIA
1. The teaching of French in Bulgarian schools is organized as follows:

1.1 First degree general education / 8 years of primary school education college + /

1.1.1 primary-school education:
1st - 4-Year French as their first foreign language - early teaching of foreign languages - according to the school from 1993 until the 1999-2000 school year:

3 hours / week in 1st year, 2 hours / week in 2-Year and 3 hours / week in 3rd and 4th years. The teaching of French as a second foreign language beginning in the second school year.

- French as a first foreign language - teaching foreign language early - according to the school from 1994 until the 2001-2002 school year:

3 hours / week in 1st year, 4 hours / week in 2nd year and 5 hours per week in 3rd and 4th years. The teaching of a second foreign language begins at 5th grade.

For all students who are first-year school year 2002/2003 is valid on the school according to which the teaching of a first foreign language must start from the second school year and a second foreign language -- since the fifth grade.

1.1.2 college-education:
5th - 8th year - French as a first foreign language for students who continue their education in terms of early foreign language with 5 hrs / week

in 5th and 6th years and 4 hours / week in 7th and 8th grades.

5th - 8th year - French as a first foreign language for students who begin their studies in foreign language in school in 1992 with 4 hours / week, the French as a second foreign language beginning in the 9th years;

5th - 8th year - French as a second foreign language for students who study a foreign language in terms of early foreign language with 4 hours / week.

1.2 Second level of general education

1.2.1 Secondary schools - education:

1.2.1.1 schools
9th - 12th year - the first French as a foreign language - 2 hours per week until the 10 th and an option for additional hours required in 11th and 12th years.

- French as a second foreign language - 2 hours per week until the 10 th and an option for additional hours required in 11th and 12th years;

High Schools / Secondary Schools and Sections profile in schools with an entrance examination after the 7th school year with intensive courses in French: compulsory education

French as their first foreign language: 8 th - 12 th years

8th year with intensive courses in French - 18 hours / week + 1 hour new technologies in French; 9 th to 12 th year - 4 hours per week.

French as a second foreign language:
Schedule Required: 9 th - 12 th year - 2 hours per week;

Learning profile: 9th - 11th year - at least 3 hours / week; 12th year - at least 4 hours / week.

1.2.1.2 Lycées professionals with an entrance examination after the 7th year with intensive courses in French:

French as their first foreign language - mandatory schedule: 8th year - 13 hours per week; 9-Year - 4 hours per week; 10 th to 12 th - 3 hours / week.

French as a second foreign language - mandatory schedule: 10th and 11th - 2 hours / week.

1.2.1.3 Professional Schools and colleges with a review after 8 - grade school:
French as a first / second language - mandatory schedule: 9th and 10th grades - 2 hours / week.

The number of students who studied French in Bulgaria during the school year 2001/2002 is approximately 104 000.

1st - 4th year - 4887 students
5th - 8th school year - 45 939 students
9 th - 12 th year - 28 000 students

11 149 students studying in 54 special schools and schools with bilingual classes Franco-Bulgarian.

25 000 students studying French in professional schools, 32 have an entrance examination after the 7th grade and intensive courses in French.

The total number of French teachers in Bulgaria is 1365.

2. In Bulgaria there are 6 channels in French schools:

including one at the University of Chemical Technology and steel, one with the Technical University, another at the Academy of Medicine, a fourth at the University of Sofia. Since 1997 there is a French chain with the Higher Institute of the food industry to the city of Plovdiv and since 1999 - French branch of political science at New Bulgarian University in Sofia.

Since 1996 in Sofia was established Francophone Institute of Directors and management - a high school for French regional importance with students from Bulgaria, Romania, Moldova and Macedonia.


REPUBLIC OF GEORGIA
According to the regulations of the Ministry of Education of Georgia, foreign language teaching in secondary schools takes place in classes V-XI at a rate of 19 hours per week.

Special schools (with teaching of French, English and other languages) start learning foreign languages from the second class and, at a rate of 42 hours per week.

The Ministry of Education has developed educational programs and has published manuals for French schoolchildren and books for teachers.

In Georgia, the French are taught in 354 schools and of these 30 schools are specialized. 55,076 students study French.

Along with state schools, private schools (Collège Saint-Exupéry, Ecole Franco-Georgian Noe Jordania, College Marie Brosset) work since the 90s.
Republic of Hungary

HUNGARY
In general, French is the third foreign language (fourth) taught in Hungary, preceded by German and English.

However, the French under an approval, may be taught as a second language as young as 6 years. In this case, French retains its status as a second language in secondary education where it is normally optional fourth language.

There are a number of primary and secondary schools specialized in teaching French as a second language and some courses are taught in French.

There are also 4 lycées completely bilingual French-Hungarian.

LITHUANIA
In general, French is the second or third (with German) foreign language taught in Lithuania, preceded by English.

In some parts of Lithuania, French is taught in secondary schools and universities as a foreign language major.

MACEDONIA
For historical and cultural reasons, the Francophonie in Macedonia is quite alive and well represented.

This goes back to the 19th century when France, for Macedonia under occupation, was the land of the free and safe for the children of rich families Macedonian who went to schools to study in Paris, Strasbourg and elsewhere.

On the other hand, until the Second World War in Macedonia there were French schools and colleges which were run by nuns.

As to the immediate past, it should be noted that France played a leading role regarding the recognition of the new Macedonian state by international institutions.

According to the statistics of 1994 in primary schools, French is represented with 35% (compared with 57% going to the English, 5% - in Russian and 2% - in German).

In secondary education, as the first language, French returning 30% (English: 55% Russian: 9%; German: 6%). As a second language in secondary schools, French is represented with 42% (English: 42%; German: 8% and 8% Russian).

The number of teachers of French 314 (English: 344; Russian: 70; German: 15).

French is taught in schools mainly primary campaign.

The introduction of a compulsory second language for foreign students last year (the fourth) of the primary level, under the new curriculum should be for the benefit of the French language.

In 1997, bilingual sections have been introduced in secondary schools.

At the moment such sections exist in secondary schools in Kumanovo, Tetovo, Skopje, Prilep, Bitola and Negotino, with a total of 13 classes and 360 students.

These are sections where certain subjects are taught in English in four years. Each section has a firm linguistic features a library, a VCR, a television with satellite dish and a computer.

As for higher education, language and French literature is very present.

In French philology near the University "Saints Cyril and Methodius" in Skopje, in first grade are about 50 students.

The Council of the Faculty of literature has adopted the principles of teaching French for beginners, which should increase the number of pupils learning French.

The Ministry of Education and Science of the Republic of Macedonia, following the recommendations of the Council of Europe is determined to continue the policy - learn two foreign languages. This determination will be in favor of teaching the French language and prevent the trend of decline of French in the schools where he held the position of first language, in direct competition with English.

It should be noted that the French Cultural Center in Skopje (established in 1974) contributes to the promotion of ties between the Republic of Macedonia and France, and thus those with the Francophonie.

MOLDOVA
The Republic of Moldova is a country of Latin civilization, the only republics of the former USSR in which the official language is a language of Latin origin.

Most Moldovans are francophone.

The Moldovan government remains very committed to the French tradition and support all efforts to keep the French at the forefront of foreign languages taught in Moldova

Currently, the Republic of Moldova, French is taught by about 2,000 teachers, approximately 700,000 students - or 67% of the total number of students - in 1124 secondary schools. In these institutions known as "general culture", the French language is studied as a foreign language at the rate of 2 to 3 hours per week (from second to twelfth).

There are also specialized schools, further education in one or several subjects, including English. The schools are specialized in French to the number of 115.

In these institutions, the French language is taught from second to twelfth at 4 to 5 hours per week. In addition to elements of general linguistics, are studied in French, a number of subjects, including literature, geography, or more specific disciplines and techniques.

In higher education, State University of Moldova, Chisinau Pedagogical University, Pedagogical University in Baltimore and the Free University of Moldova international offer their courses in English and are in total in the English language, almost 750 students per year. The Technical University has been 4 years with a channel for lessons in French. It forms each year, more than 80 construction engineers, radio, clothing, electrical engineering.

Since 1998 educational institutions and libraries of Moldova have received a donation of 80,000 pounds of the Alliance Française.

Emissions of a French language schools are broadcast on national radio, 'Dis-moi tout' and television, 'The French space.


POLAND

Based on the 2005-2006 school year, to 3.3% of pupils in primary and secondary schools, French is a compulsory language, but 65.0% of students studying English, 33.6% -- German, 6.1% - Russian.

Furthermore, as additional language, 1% of pupils in primary and secondary schools study French, 14.1% - English and 10.7% - German. English, German, Russian and French are the languages most commonly taught in school, but there are schools where we study other languages such as Spanish or Italian.

In elementary school (grades 1 - 6), for 0.5% of students, French is a compulsory language, to 48.4% - English to 15.0% - German and 2, 1% - Russian. Furthermore, as additional language, 0.7% of students studying French, 24.6% - English and 7.8% - German.

In college (grades 7 - 8), for 1.5% of students, English is a compulsory language, to 73.8% - English to 27.9% - German and 2.6% -- Russian. Furthermore, as additional language, 2.5% of students studying French, 12.0% - English and 26.7% - German.

In grammar school (grades 10 - 12) where two languages are required, French as a compulsory language is studied by 13.2% of students, English - 97.4%, German - 71, 0% and Russian - 11.4%. Furthermore, as additional language, 0.3% of students studying French, English - 0.3% and German - 0.4%.



ROMANIA
In Romania, the general education extends over 8 years, it includes primary and secondary education (classes I to IV and, respectively, V-VIII).

Starting from the third grade, students can choose between several languages, namely English, French, German, Russian, Spanish, Italian and even Japanese.

The study of a second modern language begins in secondary school, in fifth. The study of the figures shows that the number of students learning foreign languages is increasing year by year, and among these, the French occupies a privileged place.

For example:

* for the academic year 1994/1995, in the 562,212 primary school pupils studying French and 250,693 pupils in English and in secondary education, 706,097 have studied French as their first language and modern 210,755 as a second language, while 296,820 students learned English as their first language and 328,923 as a second language;

*For the academic year 1995/1996, in the 593,979 primary school pupils studying French and 271,868 pupils in English and in secondary education, 698,258 have studied French as their first language and modern 214,965 as a second language, while 318,165 students learned English as their first language and 322,513 as a second language;

* For the academic year 1996/1997, in the 609,877 primary school pupils studying French and 293,589 pupils in English and in secondary education, 692,325 have studied French as their first language and modern 217,882 as a second language, while 907,780 students learned English as their first language and 991,896 as a second language.

According to Article 32 of the Constitution and the provisions of the Education Act No. 84/1995, education in Romania can also be provided in a language of international communication.

Law No. 84/1995 stipulates that the Ministry of Education to approve the organization of units and institutions for this purpose.

In these schools, language and Romanian literature, history of Romanians and Geography of Romania are taught only in Romanian.

Under these provisions, the Ministry of Education adopted a regulation on the organization and functioning of bilingual classes and intensive.

The intensive study of a language of international communication is the form of education in which the first modern language is taught in an increased number of hours of study.

This program is introduced in primary schools from the 3rd class and in the secondary from the 5th grade. The bilingual program is the form of organized education at high schools (grades IX and XII), in which education is taught in Romanian language and language of international communication for some discipline of study.

This program applies only to the teaching of the first foreign language. Now (1998-1999), in Romania there are 60 sections in schools with bilingual French students in 5199.

CZECH REPUBLIC

Language teaching is not usually in the program mandatory Czech schools. In such cases, the figure among the French languages.

There is, however, the Czech Republic in 1500 qualified teachers in learning the language.

French is the third foreign language taught in the Czech Republic, after English and German. It is taught to 6% of pupils in primary schools. In secondary schools follows the course of 14% of French students.

Czech Republic 4 schools are bilingual Franco-Czech.

In Prague there is a school system or the enseingement is provided in French, started kindergarten to secondary schools.

In some other Czech cities are also institutions that provide instruction in French, but it remains relatively rare.

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Chirac   Sat Sep 19, 2009 6:32 am GMT
el español no es sino una sombra tenue del francés que es mejor mejor mejor
reality   Sat Sep 19, 2009 6:45 am GMT
Even Italian is much better as a culture language than Spanish, that's no doubt. Italy can boast more than half of the world architectonical and artistic world heritage.
Harman   Sat Sep 19, 2009 7:20 am GMT
This thread is about spanish second though but it has become a fight between languages about which will be number 3 (Local, English, number 3).
Anyway, time will decide which will survive and which will not. (English is sure, rest... i don't know).
verga   Sat Sep 19, 2009 7:26 am GMT
Usefulness is ridiculously ill-defined. Usefulness demands an additional "for what". If someone learnt Spanish to read books in Spanish, Spanish was useful to him in fulfilling that goal. Similarly, if someone is a dog breeder then English's status as language of physics is irrelevant.
FYI   Sat Sep 19, 2009 7:33 am GMT
All the best dog-breeders are English. . .