do all Scottish, Irish and Welsh speak English?

mike   Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:54 pm GMT
what is it with the english wanting to live in wales? just been to my local shopping centre nothing but sais accents even on the checkout is this some sort of mass immigration, what do they want why are they here? please go home you have ruined what was a loverly sunny day in what is gods land WALES
O'Bruadair   Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:21 pm GMT

Glad to hear that we are not he only people with that problem. Southerners are beset with the same thing (just yankees instead of English). I’ll bet they like to tell you how they did things and how much better things were over in England too! Our standard answer of course is “if things are so backwards here why don’t you GO HOME?”.

Do you know the difference between a yankee and a damnedyankee? (yes that IS one word in Southern English) Yankees come South on vacation and then go home. Damnedyankees come South and stay.
mike   Sat Apr 07, 2007 7:24 pm GMT
o'Bruadair thanks for you comments gla d to see i'm not the only person to feel like this, i would realy like to hear from an english person as to why they want to live in wales? please go home!
Pete   Sat Apr 07, 2007 8:47 pm GMT
How many Welshmen and women live in England?

Just a thought.
O'Bruadair   Sun Apr 08, 2007 4:41 pm GMT
Not the point Pete. A tremendous number of Southerners both black and white live in the north too. Most of them, both black and white, come back home when they retire too. Truman Capote said “Southerners always come home, even if it is in a pine box”. He was right.

Point is Southerners don’t normally move north and start denigrating the people and the culture. Yankees move here and expect us to start speaking and acting like THEM (God forbid). I suspect the English do the same in Wales. Am I right, Mike?

I think the phenomenon has something to do with their common Puritan heritage.
mike   Mon Apr 09, 2007 7:23 pm GMT
spot on O'Bruadair the english seem to bring they're veiws here and try to force them on everyone with a we know whats best for you atitude, just this week a manager in our local hospital thought it best welsh not used in his department. They are still trying after hundreds of years to assimilate the welsh to english by any means possible, the same people who love take a swipe at the welsh and wales are also pricing persons like myself out of the housing market, english go home!!!!!!
Dib   Thu Jun 07, 2007 5:29 pm GMT
I have just read all 26 pages on this topic.
It has been very interesting indeed.

I am an English student studying in Wales. When i first arrived here 2 years ago i didnt realise the Welsh hated the English so much. Pratically everyone i know back home hasn't heard of this hatred either, yet, every single welsh person in Wales seems to dislike the English on a personal level.

I have been made to feel uncomfortable in many pubs and bars, and was even forced to leave one, purely for being English.

Why is this? And why do very few people in England know about this hatred? Why is it so one sided? (on the Welsh behalf)

Damian in Edinburgh   Thu Jun 07, 2007 11:22 pm GMT
In the last couple of years I have been down to Wales several times as my very best mate from uni days at Leeds was (still is of course) a Welshman, from Anglesey, in north west Wales. Anglesey - the island separated from mainland Wales by the narrow Menai Straits, and accessible by two bridges - road and rail.

Anglesey (Sir Fon in Welsh - from the original name of Mona, which was the name given to it by the occupying Romans) is very proudly Welsh speaking - over 75% of resident the population speak it . The teaching of Welsh in the schools is of paramount importance. Anglesey has seen a huge influx of people from England moving there permanently-from what I could tell when I was down there the English integrated into the local communities very well. The Welsh people are very proud to be Welsh, are happy in insisting that they retain their national identity-the last thing they would ever want is to be seen as a mere western extension of Great God England next door and across the border.

Wales is quite different from England. You notice that the minute you cross the border - not just by seeing all the road signs become bilingual and all the place names suddenly changing from Anglo Saxon to Celtic Welsh. The very atmosphere changes somehow. Welshness takes over from Englishness. Much as happens in Scottish/English situation except we don't have the blingual signs up here - they remain all English (except up in the Gaelic areas, of course).

Welksh people are very friendly and welcoming people - as long as you are prepared to accept and acknowledge that they are NOT English - they are Welsh. If you downgrade their Welsh status - boy, will they let you know it - big time. THAT'S when they make you "feel uncomfortable in the pubs and bars" or wherever as described in the post above. YOU have to fit in with them -on their territory. If you expect them to fit in with you on their own homeground then you get short shrift, pal.

Adapt and integrate and the Welcome in the Vales is warm and genuine. If not - you get the hump and the cold shoulder. Only natural.

It really is a pity that those who do downgrade and seemingly diss the Welsh for being who they are do tend to be English people. It's always been the case apparently. Maybe a throwback from the days of the border skirmishes etc prior to the occupation and later annexation of Wales to England in the 16th century.

I have to admit that being a Scot does really make it easier for me to be shown a feeling of mutual kinship by Welsh people than would English people on first meeting. The English do need to work that bit harder to be accepted in full by the Welsh, that's true.

Noswaith dda i chwi oll yng Nghymru o'r Albaen! Hwyl fawr.
Pub Lunch   Fri Jun 08, 2007 6:49 pm GMT
Hmmnn, I have mixed feelings regarding the way the Welsh treat us English. I'm mates with a Welshman (an absolute diamond geezer) who lives in Llanelli, and the few times I have been I have integrated well and always had a good craic. The locals are absolute top and my friends family are amazing, it really is a brilliant cultural experience (even the dodgy sounding Welsh dish 'Cowl' was nice).

But, at the same time, I have also walked into a pub and simply and politely asked for a pint of lager only to be ignored - I mean completely ignored. Now I'd only just walked into the place and for the first time as well. It was the most unexpected thing I had ever encountered and I was bewildered as to how to react. In all honesty, after this I did get aggressive, but I am sure anyone would given the situation. My mate told me that as the area I was in was a Welsh speaking area I should have perhaps attempted to say something in Welsh (just outside Tenby).

Sorry but that was and is absolute bollocks. If I go to India and ask for a beer there, are they justified in ignoring me because I did not say anything in Hindi?? Besides, everyone in that pub spoke English anyway and I did not realise that it was Welsh speaking. In my book it was racism pure and simple.

I was also completely ignored once when asking for directions in Snowdonia national park (nice place by the way); again this happened with complete strangers whom had never laid eyes on me before. I also had some trouble in Cardiff, but that place is carnage on a Saturday night and it may have been less personal than the other instances. I have never had this problem in Scotland however.

So, like I said, I have mixed feelings regarding the Welsh, based purely on my experiences there. Without out a doubt, I'm sure the majority of the Welsh would never dream of acting like some of the Welsh did in these instances, but for certain, many seem to be carrying some serious chips.

Would the English ignore a Welshman if they just walked into a pub and simply ordered a bevy?? Basically no, although I am sure down the year’s similar things have gone on. But there is no way this sort of ignorance is as prevalent here as it 'seems' to be over there (purely based on what I have seen).
I have to say, do the Welsh get treated the same in England, erm no probably not.
Adam JOnes   Fri Jun 15, 2007 10:55 am GMT
Ar diwedd y dydd os dach chi ddim yn hapus gyda ni yma yn Nghymru ewch nol dros y bont i Loegr a arhoswch fanna. Dwi wedi diflasu gyda'r sylwebu ynglŷn ar iaith Gymraeg gydag Saeson yn danseilio'r iaith eto fel ei fod yn rhyw ffyrdd ragfeddiannus o gyfathrebu.

Cymru yn Gymraeg

Lloegr yn Saesneg

a dyna ni ps chi'n dod i Gymru siaradwch Cymraeg byw fel Cymro/Cymraes

Os chi'n symud i Loegr siaradwch Saesneg byw fel mochyn wrth gwrs lol
I ate spam   Fri Jun 15, 2007 1:29 pm GMT
Totally agree all the English should feck out of Wales and all the Welsh should feck out of England, the same should happen with the English and Scots.

Lots of the Celts come to England to work, but hate the English, constantly complaining how this and that happened however many years ago, and how they are still are subjected to English dominance in Government. Despite the fact that under New Labour, it seems the Scottish are in charge, and yes I know that we all vote on matters that don't impact upon our regions.

England for the English, Scotland for the Scottish and Welsh for the Welsh, although if this happened many of our "prominent" (I use this jokingly) citizens would not have been born.

Christian Bale - Welsh (English parents)
Tony Blair - Scottish (Likes to think he's English - despite nobody accepting him)
Shirley Bassey - Welsh (Nigerian Father, English Mother)

Can't think (I'm English) of too many other examples but I know they exist.
EnglishWelshman   Fri Jun 15, 2007 1:33 pm GMT
While English accents have affected Anglo-Welsh, it was by no means a one way traffic. In particular, Scouse and Brummie accents have both had extensive Anglo-Welsh input through immigration, although in the former case, the influence of Anglo-Irish is better known.
Damian in dinburgh   Fri Jun 15, 2007 1:55 pm GMT
There are thousands of English people living in Scotland
There are thousands of Scottish people living in England
There are thousands of Welsh people living in England
There are thousands of English people living in Wales
There are Scots living in Wales
There are Welsh people living in Scotland

For goodness sake - why upset this lovely apple cart? If it's what some people want we can all hate each others' guts but at the same time still live together in peace and unity.....

I would loathe the idea of going through some poxy border control post every time I went down to England and then the same again on the way back. But that wouldn't happen anyway would it? I momentarily forgot - in the EU there are no border checks any more - what a relief. We can still come and go as we long as we remain in the EU.
Adam   Fri Jun 15, 2007 6:24 pm GMT
"what is it with the english wanting to live in wales?"

There are probably as many as 500,000 Welsh people living in England.

Likewise, there are around 700,000 English people living in Wales.

Considering that the population of Wales is 3 million and the population of England is 51 million that is actually a far higher percentage of the Welsh who live in England than English who live in Wales.

And remember, too, that most Welsh people get to live in England almost free from trouble, whereas many English people who have bought holiday homes in Wales suddenly discover, to their horror, that the locals have burnt them down.

On this evidence, who is more tolerant and less bigotted than the other? The English or the Welsh?
Adam   Fri Jun 15, 2007 6:41 pm GMT
"Britain was beset by the wars of the Roses and on 8 August 1485 Henry Tudor and his Uncle Jasper landed at Milford Haven. They raised a Welsh army and marched against Richard III. On 21 August 1485 Henry Tudor's army flying the Red Dragon banner of Cadwaladr won the day. Richard was slain and Henry Tudor was crowned on the battle field. This Henry VII ‑ Henry Tudor ‑ a Welsh prince ascended the throne of England.

This brought nothing to Wales and in 1536 his son Henry VIII granted the Royal Ascent to the Act of Union. This Act brought Welsh law and admini­stration into line with England. The policy of the Tudor Government was to incorporate Wales into England by removing all differences, especially the language. Six years later, the 1542 Act set out to "extirp" the Welsh language and to exclude monoglot Welsh speakers from holding office under the Crown.

Interesting how history can be twisted isnt it. So Henry VIII son of a welsh prince who could speak welsh himself is the evil ENGLISH oppressor."

The Wars of the Roses was an English civil war that took place between 1455 and 1485. It wasn't Britain that was beset by this was but England, as England and Wales didn't unify together until 1536, then England/Wales and Scotland unified in 1707 to form Britain (then Ireland joined the Union in 1801).

The Wars of the Roses were fought between two Royal Houses of the Plantagenet royal dynasty - the Lancastrians and the Yorkists - and was a victory for the Lancastrians.

There was no actual Welsh army fighting Richard III, only the Lancastrian army who marched through Wales recruiting a number of Welsh supporters.

When the Yorkist King Richard III was defeated at the Battle of Bosworth by Henry Tudor, Henry later proclaimed himself King of England - King Henry VII. In the process, he also started the Tudor Dynasty.

Many people see Richard III as evil - he even allegedly locked his two nephews - King Edward V (who was just 12 when he reigned as king) and the Duke of York - in the Tower of London so that he could become king, and when they died, and HOW they died, remains a mystery to this day. Did Richard III murder them?!?!

Many English people still see King Richard III as evil. Even one of the nicknames for "having a poo" or "having a turd" is "having a King Richard III."