German influence on American English

BigBubba   Sun Apr 04, 2010 4:48 pm GMT
I was just watching a german trailer for star trek and I notice how American it sounded. I mean it has this same dry quality that I find the midwestern(standard amerrican) has. I know Irish immigrants had a large effect on how words are pronounced. I have also heard that part of it is the national education system of the 19th century. But has anyone else noticed that no other language in europe has this dry sound aside from German.

I always thought of British English as having a tonal quality to it, it seems like Americans and German got this dry tone when they talk.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohLnWiumL4c&feature=player_embedded
Kendra   Sun Apr 04, 2010 5:14 pm GMT
to schlep
Unknown   Sun May 23, 2010 4:48 pm GMT
English derived from german and is in fact a west germanic language.
"English is a West Germanic language that arose in England and south-eastern Scotland in the time of the Anglo-Saxons."

Modern german words that are now mostly american english are a later form of influence like "kindergarden", "poltergeist", "rucksack", "dreck" and many, many more due to german immigration of the US.

"German Americans comprise about 51 million people, or 17% of the U.S. population, the country's largest self-reported ancestral group."
wikipedia, Census of 2008

I hope I could clarify a few things.
blancvert   Sun May 23, 2010 5:16 pm GMT
There's one error in your post Unknown. English isn't derived from German, it's derived from Proto-Germanic.
Uriel   Sun May 23, 2010 6:57 pm GMT
I think it's just that American intonation tends to lack the pitch variation of English English. We have more of a monotone. If German is also like this, it's probably just a coincidence, not a matter of direct influence.
L   Sun May 23, 2010 8:31 pm GMT
Well, the vast majority of Americans are of German ancestry
Start wreck   Sun May 23, 2010 11:05 pm GMT
The only thing that sounded American about the narrative in that trailer was the way it was delivered, Hollywood-style.

And rubbish to the previous posts about "the vast majority of Americans are of German ancestry" or "English derived from German".

English might be a Germanic language, that doesn't make it a "German" language.
L   Mon May 24, 2010 5:12 am GMT
Unknown   Mon May 24, 2010 8:27 am GMT
In the fifth century the anglo-saxons established the first kingdoms after the roman occupation.
The angles, saxons and jutes are germanic tribes which spoke old german.
These tribes did not leave Germany as a whole but instead a majority stayed on the european continent and they are direct ancestors of the germans. Three counties of sixteen counties are named after the saxons today, who played a big role in history. The whole german people derived from a number of german tribes like the angles, like the saxons, which shared a vast cultural and lingustic identity. Their language is old german. Proto-Germanic was a language which was spoken untill ~0. So no, it was an old german.
Later Dutch derived from a german dialect in north germany/netherlands ("Friesisch").
Until today it is common to refer to britains as "angels" or "anglo-saxons".

This culture of half knowledge is just depressing.
And yes: Germans are the by far largest ethnic group in the USA. Outnumbering all other ethnics by vast numbers.
"The only self-reported ancestral group larger than Irish Americans are German Americans." More than 15 mio. more.
2008 Census of the US goverment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_American
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language
Start Wreck   Mon May 24, 2010 11:45 am GMT
"the vast majority of Americans are of German ancestry" means that more than 50% are of German ancestry; "vast" strongly implies a figure like 70% or something closer to 100%. This is clearly not the case.

I followed the links and now understand you meant "largest self-reported ancestral group" (17%) which sounds more reasonable.



The above Wikipedia links confirm that English is not derived from German as I wrote.

"Historically, English originated from several dialects, now collectively termed Old English, which were brought to the eastern coast of the island of Great Britain by Anglo-Saxon settlers beginning in the 5th century.[citation needed] English was further influenced by the Old Norse language of Viking invaders.

After the time of the Norman conquest, Old English developed into Middle English, borrowing heavily from the Norman-French ..."
Katttkdma   Mon May 24, 2010 2:12 pm GMT
English is a germanic language. And American English is even more german.
Why is it so hard to admit is beyond me.
Leasnam   Mon May 24, 2010 2:29 pm GMT
<<The angles, saxons and jutes are germanic tribes which spoke old german. >>

Old (High) German, Old Saxon, Old English, et al were just closely related languages/dialects of what we could term "Old Germanic". It was not Old German. There is a big difference.

That would be akin to stating that Yiddish is derived from Old English or Old Norse, or Gothic.



There is a German influence in American culture, and speech, but the Germanic legacy bequeathed to us through Great Britian from the Anglo-Saxons is wholly sunder from all of that. The Anglo-Saxons were in no way like today's Germans. Nor were they very similar to Old Germans. They were cousins, though.
Unknown   Mon May 24, 2010 3:58 pm GMT
"After the time of the Norman conquest, Old English developed into Middle English, borrowing heavily from the Norman-French"

Which only applied to higher castes and the nobilty through claims of the throne by france. The whole Robin Hood myth is build upon those claims and the anglo-saxon population acted against it.
Later some, a very small amount, influenced the english language as of today because of this short regency. For example "pig". "Swine", the alternative comes from a former "Schwein" (german).
The grammar, the structure of the language is not latin. The language derived from a very early german. If you read "Beowulf" or even "Lord of the Rings" (Tolkien was a Germanist) you find espacially the same names and word stems than in middle high german.
Ask every linguist in the world.
"These differences, though minor, preclude mutual intelligibility, yet English is still much closer to other Germanic languages than to languages of any other family."

breakfast = Fastenbruch
morning = Morgen
wolf = Wolf
bear = Bär
way = Weg
stone = Stein
street = Straße
world = Welt
star = Stern

The list goes on for a great number of words. Especially very old words (words that have been used for thousands of years and independent of which time by humans) are easily comparable.
Some words like "Fastenbruch" are rarely used even in modern german because there are many developments in a language. The differences between the east german "Sächsisch" (a dialect) and todays english is just 1500 years of nearly independent development. There are scandinavian occupations (which is also germanic languages but this time not western but north germanic), so not far away, but also a short period of french leadership which influenced the language in the middle ages.
Both examples did not influenced the original language which had other influences. So all the difference is time. I really know what I am talking about. ;)



"The Anglo-Saxons were in no way like today's Germans. Nor were they very similar to Old Germans. They were cousins, though. "
Absolutely wrong!
The saxons are one of the greater tribes that effectively and directly became the german people. The whole history untill the late 1800s are dominated of small german states that directly go back to those tribes. Franks, Saxons, Allamanics, Bajuwarians are just the more important tribes. To declare the Saxons as "cousins" is just plain wrong.
Other popular german tribes like the Vandals, the Goths formed kingdoms in Spain, even Africa.
The Franks (Frankfurt/Frankenfurt means a fordable spot in the course of a river and is named after them, also "Frankreich"/"Frankenreich" or "france") was founded by Charles the Great. "Karl der Große" is a frank and first king of the later "Roman Empire of the German Nation".
It collapsed in three parts (three sons) and the western one became france. The other two became Germany.

This all just is supposed to show that those tribes were not just a few people that lived on the spot where Germany is today. Germans are the direct (!) descendents of those. The Anglo-Saxons, Englanders, that live in England, not Great Britain, if you want to draw that line, are the cousins. The ancestors of them were the same people like the ancestors of today's Germans. But this is very simplified to clarify. There are a lot of celtic influences through the original population of Ireland, Scotland, Wales and France after the occupations and building of Great Britain which involves these tribes of Celts.

There were three great cultures in Central Europe. Today it is difficult to draw a line especially in Britain.
1. Celts, Western Europe (originally North England, parts of Ireland and the Normandy in France)
2. Germanic Peoples, the English language is a little confusing here, in most germanic languages they are refered to as "Germans" but that describes today's germans in English. The germans call themself "Deutsche", not "Germanen". (originally Denmark, North and East Germany, Scandinavia)
3. Slavs (From Poland to the east to Russia)

There are other minor groups, one big one to the south (Romans) that I skipped.

Those three groups among many others in the world are groups which shared language, culture, religious and other components.

In terms of language you can trace back the following languages to those and in most cases the respective Peoples derive from those three groups.

1. Celts, that means celtic language: (Old) Irish (not dialect in modern English!), (Old) Scottish Gaelic (Same here, nothing to do with English), Gaulish (France).
2. Germanic Peoples, that means germanic language:
North germanic: Norwegian, Swedish, Danish, Icelandic
West germanic: German, Dutch (which derived from german - frisian dialect), English (the whole point, derived from german due to angles, saxons and jutes)
3. Slavs, slavic languages:
Three groups, not this discussion tangenting, the most popular are Russian, Polish, etc.

I hope I could carify what I am talking about.

And to close this all: I recommend to go further in this all by visting some of these links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_languages
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Germanic_languages
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Germanic_languages
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavic_languages
Unknown   Mon May 24, 2010 4:07 pm GMT
I forgot the most important one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_languages

Especially "Vocabulary comparison" where you can find my examples and this map: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Europe_germanic-languages_2.PNG

I am asking myself why I put so much effort in all this but I am sick of reading BS about this manner in the internet. I do not mean the posters above me! Just sites like yahoo answers and such.
Leasnam   Mon May 24, 2010 5:59 pm GMT
<<For example "pig". "Swine", the alternative comes from a former "Schwein" (german). >>

For wis, you mean 'pork' and 'swine'. Pig is also Old English ('picg/picga'). English 'swine' comes from Middle English 'swine' from Old English 'swín' from Proto-Germanic 'swinaz/swinan' "pig" from Proto-Indo-European su-ino- "little pig", diminutive of 'su-' "pig". Whence then is the German 'Schwein'?


<<"These differences, though minor, preclude mutual intelligibility, yet English is still much closer to other Germanic languages than to languages of any other family." >>

Great. Just great. Wikipedia.

<<The saxons are one of the greater tribes that effectively and directly became the german people.>>

The Saxons of Britain were not those saxons.
Besides, we are more than just the Saxons, we are also Jutes and Angels which are NOT part of the Deutsch nation today!