Probably because most people are of mixed ancestry and they may decide to identify with another branch of the family in different years. I've done that. People can put whatever they like. Also, you aren't always looking at the same individuals. Only a small percentage of citizens get the "long form" that asks more detailed questions, and that's distributed randomly. Plus people die, and new ones come of age and start filling out the form for themselves. 2000 was also the first year that provided for people to identify themselves as being of more than one race, so the questions changed slightly. It was also the year that hispanics surpassed blacks in number; together they made up a quarter of the population. So demographics are always in flux. And even hispanics and blacks are not ethnic monoliths unto themselves; many, if not most, can claim a mixed background just like whites -- French, Indian, Irish, whatever.
German influence on American English
I see, thanks. I understand that demographics change in the space of a decade, but I didn't realise ethnic identification in America was that fluid. Although, some reported ancestries seem to remain a lot more stable than others.
How many of those Amish/Hussites, Swiss, Austrian, Eastern European Luxemburg, Italian and French German speakers immigrants to America tick themselves as German roots rather than German speakers?
Quintus Tue May 25, 2010 11:57 am GMT
Getting back to Big Bubba's original observation upon which he was inviting us to comment, and speaking very, very broadly and generally, the distribution of American accents along with their origins and major influences (in descending order of impact) for about the past two centuries may be noted as follows :
NEW YORK, NEW JERSEY : The Netherlands, Germany, Austria-Hungary
PENNSYLVANIA, OHIO : Germany, Austria-Hungary, the British Isles
NEW ENGLAND : East Anglia and the West Country of England, Ireland
THE MIDDLE ATLANTIC COAST : The British Isles, the Netherlands
THE SOUTH : Ulster, Scotland, the West Country of England, West Africa
EAST TEXAS : Ulster, Scotland, Germany, Bohemia-Moravia
THE MIDDLE WEST : Germany, Ireland, Austria-Hungary
MICHIGAN : The Netherlands, Finland, Norway, France via Quebec
WISCONSIN, MINNESOTA : Sweden, Norway, Germany, France via Quebec
THE SOUTHWEST, WEST TEXAS, CENTRAL TEXAS : Germany, Bohemia-Moravia, the British Isles
IDAHO : Ulster, Germany, Norway
THE WEST COAST, NEVADA : Germany, Sweden, Norway
ALASKA : Norway, Sweden
Never the less, I do believe that, more than some others, it is a direct response to the curiosity of Big Bubba's original post.
Thanks thats more of what i was getting at. So imho the west seems mostly german, the south scots-irish, and north east Anglo-Celtic? Of course there's others but over all that's the general feel.
Getting back to Big Bubba's original observation upon which he was inviting us to comment, and speaking very, very broadly and generally, the distribution of American accents along with their origins and major influences (in descending order of impact) for about the past two centuries may be noted as follows :
NEW YORK, NEW JERSEY : The Netherlands, Germany, Austria-Hungary
PENNSYLVANIA, OHIO : Germany, Austria-Hungary, the British Isles
NEW ENGLAND : East Anglia and the West Country of England, Ireland
THE MIDDLE ATLANTIC COAST : The British Isles, the Netherlands
THE SOUTH : Ulster, Scotland, the West Country of England, West Africa
EAST TEXAS : Ulster, Scotland, Germany, Bohemia-Moravia
THE MIDDLE WEST : Germany, Ireland, Austria-Hungary
MICHIGAN : The Netherlands, Finland, Norway, France via Quebec
WISCONSIN, MINNESOTA : Sweden, Norway, Germany, France via Quebec
THE SOUTHWEST, WEST TEXAS, CENTRAL TEXAS : Germany, Bohemia-Moravia, the British Isles
IDAHO : Ulster, Germany, Norway
THE WEST COAST, NEVADA : Germany, Sweden, Norway
ALASKA : Norway, Sweden
Never the less, I do believe that, more than some others, it is a direct response to the curiosity of Big Bubba's original post.
Thanks thats more of what i was getting at. So imho the west seems mostly german, the south scots-irish, and north east Anglo-Celtic? Of course there's others but over all that's the general feel.
I would definitely say that Luxembourg is in Western Europe...just look at the map and you will see it wedged in between the Netherlands, Germany and maybe even a wee bit of Belgium. It's a fascinating little country, proud of its separate identity, and so it should be.
I love the "little nations" of Europe - apart from Luxembourg we have Liechenstein, Andorra, San Marino and of course rich little Monaco. Maybe we can include Albania here, but maybe the "splitting off nations" of the Balkan States are in a separate category, as are the three Baltic States.
What an interesting place Europe is to be sure.....so many cultures, so many languages, so many separate identities all rolled into the physically smallest of the world's continents.
In the minds of most people Eastern Europe generally covers all those countries which once formed part of the Communist Soviet bloc, those countries imprisoned behind that fortification which Winston Churchill first called the Iron Curtain dividing Europe.
I love the "little nations" of Europe - apart from Luxembourg we have Liechenstein, Andorra, San Marino and of course rich little Monaco. Maybe we can include Albania here, but maybe the "splitting off nations" of the Balkan States are in a separate category, as are the three Baltic States.
What an interesting place Europe is to be sure.....so many cultures, so many languages, so many separate identities all rolled into the physically smallest of the world's continents.
In the minds of most people Eastern Europe generally covers all those countries which once formed part of the Communist Soviet bloc, those countries imprisoned behind that fortification which Winston Churchill first called the Iron Curtain dividing Europe.
<<which Winston Churchill first called the Iron Curtain dividing Europe. >>
Churchill wasn't the first to use the expression "iron curtain". It first appeared straight around 1917.
Churchill wasn't the first to use the expression "iron curtain". It first appeared straight around 1917.
Where do you get: ALASKA : Norway, Sweden?
Not from the US Census Bureau, which lists German (19.3%), Native (14.4%), Irish (12.5%), and English (10.8%) as the biggies in Alaska. There are more hispanics (5.5%) in Alaska than Swedes (2.8%) or Norwegians (4.2%)!
I have a hard time believing those two last groups have put a major stamp on the way Alaskans talk.
And for having been bought from Russia and still boasting plenty of old Eastern orthodox churches, few Alaskans now claim Russian ancestry: only 1.5%.
But remember, that doesn't mean there aren't more Russian genes milling around out there, unknown or unacknowledged, among all those people who happened to put down German or Irish or Lithuanian or what have you (probably from their dad's side of the family, but what about mom's?). After all, how many people claim Neanderthal on a form? And yet their DNA lurks within some of us.
Not from the US Census Bureau, which lists German (19.3%), Native (14.4%), Irish (12.5%), and English (10.8%) as the biggies in Alaska. There are more hispanics (5.5%) in Alaska than Swedes (2.8%) or Norwegians (4.2%)!
I have a hard time believing those two last groups have put a major stamp on the way Alaskans talk.
And for having been bought from Russia and still boasting plenty of old Eastern orthodox churches, few Alaskans now claim Russian ancestry: only 1.5%.
But remember, that doesn't mean there aren't more Russian genes milling around out there, unknown or unacknowledged, among all those people who happened to put down German or Irish or Lithuanian or what have you (probably from their dad's side of the family, but what about mom's?). After all, how many people claim Neanderthal on a form? And yet their DNA lurks within some of us.
>>Where do you get: ALASKA : Norway, Sweden?>>
The accents, Uriel, not the genes. (However, I do appreciate your enthusiasm anent this topic.)
My list, though painted with a very broad brush, serves to outline the impact of immigration on American accents.
If you can stand to conduct the experiment, listen to Sarah Palin's way of speaking - it's very close to Minnesota Scandihoovian.
The accents, Uriel, not the genes. (However, I do appreciate your enthusiasm anent this topic.)
My list, though painted with a very broad brush, serves to outline the impact of immigration on American accents.
If you can stand to conduct the experiment, listen to Sarah Palin's way of speaking - it's very close to Minnesota Scandihoovian.
You assume Sarah Palin is representative of how all other Alaskans speak? You're generalizing off of one person?
Apparently her fellow Alaskans aren't claiming it for themselves:
http://alaskanexposure.wordpress.com/2008/09/28/the-alaskan-accent/
"Everyone agrees – Tina Fey nails Governor Palin’s accent. But the real funny thing is no one in Alaska talks like Sarah Palin! In fact, Alaskans in my opinion are curiously without an accent. Sarah Palin has developed her very own, unique, red-neck meets Fargo North Dakota accent. I swear, no one in Alaska talks like that! Sure, you run into the occasional Alaskan who (like some southerners) never speaks in the past tense, but overall Alaskans have pretty good grammar, and have a neutral, flat speaking voice. Palin’s propensity for poor grammar and talking like a hick isn’t regional but just a reflection on her ignorance and lack of education."
http://harvardcitizen.com/2008/10/18/sarah-palin-is-not-alaskan/
"Her accent is not Alaskan. Seriously, Alaskans do not speak like that. We do not say “yeah, sure, you betcha.’” Our women (such as they are) do not squeak or say “dontcha’ know.” They do not say “Joe Six-Pack” or “hockey moms.” Those are terms people outside of rural communities use to refer to rural people. Palin’s accent brings to mind an Idahoan making fun of a North Dakotan coming to terms with her Minnesotan roots. It has nothing to do with the Pacific Northwest."
http://www.yelp.com/topic/san-francisco-video-palins-fake-accent
"I don't really get it, and I was talking to a friend of mine who is a reporter in Alaska...I'm from there and golly, no one speaks like that! I mean, ya, Alaskans have an accent...but not like we are from Fargo..."
Apparently her fellow Alaskans aren't claiming it for themselves:
http://alaskanexposure.wordpress.com/2008/09/28/the-alaskan-accent/
"Everyone agrees – Tina Fey nails Governor Palin’s accent. But the real funny thing is no one in Alaska talks like Sarah Palin! In fact, Alaskans in my opinion are curiously without an accent. Sarah Palin has developed her very own, unique, red-neck meets Fargo North Dakota accent. I swear, no one in Alaska talks like that! Sure, you run into the occasional Alaskan who (like some southerners) never speaks in the past tense, but overall Alaskans have pretty good grammar, and have a neutral, flat speaking voice. Palin’s propensity for poor grammar and talking like a hick isn’t regional but just a reflection on her ignorance and lack of education."
http://harvardcitizen.com/2008/10/18/sarah-palin-is-not-alaskan/
"Her accent is not Alaskan. Seriously, Alaskans do not speak like that. We do not say “yeah, sure, you betcha.’” Our women (such as they are) do not squeak or say “dontcha’ know.” They do not say “Joe Six-Pack” or “hockey moms.” Those are terms people outside of rural communities use to refer to rural people. Palin’s accent brings to mind an Idahoan making fun of a North Dakotan coming to terms with her Minnesotan roots. It has nothing to do with the Pacific Northwest."
http://www.yelp.com/topic/san-francisco-video-palins-fake-accent
"I don't really get it, and I was talking to a friend of mine who is a reporter in Alaska...I'm from there and golly, no one speaks like that! I mean, ya, Alaskans have an accent...but not like we are from Fargo..."
Come to think of it, Uriel, Sarah Palin's parents did hail from the State of Washington (which is part of the Pacific Northwest as well, so I'm not sure what that "Harvard Citizen" comment was driving at).
I have met Alaskans who speak in the same Scandihoovian cadences as Sarah Palin, but admittedly, they were few---and yes, they were rural folk (I perceive some anxious suburban bias in the comments you quoted).
In any case, as I took pains to point out, if you've read my original reply to Big Bubba, my list is certainly subject to revision. It was a beginning, offered to him, and to you, as an actual response that related to the observations of his original post ; and prompted here by you, revise it I will, reprinting it below while leaving Alaska a blank for further contemplation.
I have met Alaskans who speak in the same Scandihoovian cadences as Sarah Palin, but admittedly, they were few---and yes, they were rural folk (I perceive some anxious suburban bias in the comments you quoted).
In any case, as I took pains to point out, if you've read my original reply to Big Bubba, my list is certainly subject to revision. It was a beginning, offered to him, and to you, as an actual response that related to the observations of his original post ; and prompted here by you, revise it I will, reprinting it below while leaving Alaska a blank for further contemplation.
Revised list of the distribution of American accents along with their origins and major influences for the past two centuries (noted in descending order of impact) :
NEW YORK, NEW JERSEY : The Netherlands, Germany, Austria-Hungary
PENNSYLVANIA, OHIO : Germany, Austria-Hungary, the British Isles
NEW ENGLAND : East Anglia and the West Country of England, Ireland
THE MIDDLE ATLANTIC COAST : The British Isles, the Netherlands
DELAWARE, MARYLAND : The British Isles
THE SOUTH : Ulster, Scotland, the West Country of England, West Africa
LOUISIANA : France via Canada (Acadian expulsions), Ulster, Scotland, France per se, Germany and Netherlands via New Yorkers' migration
EAST TEXAS : Ulster, Scotland, Germany, Bohemia-Moravia
THE MIDDLE WEST : Germany, Ireland, Austria-Hungary
MICHIGAN : The Netherlands, Finland, Norway, France via Quebec
WISCONSIN, MINNESOTA : Sweden, Norway, Germany, France via Quebec
THE SOUTHWEST, WEST TEXAS, CENTRAL TEXAS : Germany, Bohemia-Moravia, the British Isles
MONTANA, WYOMING (NORTH ROCKY MOUNTAINS) : Germany, Ireland, Norway, Sweden
THE DAKOTAS, THE NORTH GREAT PLAINS : Sweden, Norway, Germany
IOWA : Germany, Bohemia
IDAHO : Ulster, Germany, Norway
THE WEST COAST, NEVADA : Germany, Sweden, Norway
ALASKA : ____________________
Obviously this rundown constitutes a very broad guide, quite generalised and debatable, very arguable indeed as well as subject to further adjustments, variables and exceptions.
~Quintus~
NEW YORK, NEW JERSEY : The Netherlands, Germany, Austria-Hungary
PENNSYLVANIA, OHIO : Germany, Austria-Hungary, the British Isles
NEW ENGLAND : East Anglia and the West Country of England, Ireland
THE MIDDLE ATLANTIC COAST : The British Isles, the Netherlands
DELAWARE, MARYLAND : The British Isles
THE SOUTH : Ulster, Scotland, the West Country of England, West Africa
LOUISIANA : France via Canada (Acadian expulsions), Ulster, Scotland, France per se, Germany and Netherlands via New Yorkers' migration
EAST TEXAS : Ulster, Scotland, Germany, Bohemia-Moravia
THE MIDDLE WEST : Germany, Ireland, Austria-Hungary
MICHIGAN : The Netherlands, Finland, Norway, France via Quebec
WISCONSIN, MINNESOTA : Sweden, Norway, Germany, France via Quebec
THE SOUTHWEST, WEST TEXAS, CENTRAL TEXAS : Germany, Bohemia-Moravia, the British Isles
MONTANA, WYOMING (NORTH ROCKY MOUNTAINS) : Germany, Ireland, Norway, Sweden
THE DAKOTAS, THE NORTH GREAT PLAINS : Sweden, Norway, Germany
IOWA : Germany, Bohemia
IDAHO : Ulster, Germany, Norway
THE WEST COAST, NEVADA : Germany, Sweden, Norway
ALASKA : ____________________
Obviously this rundown constitutes a very broad guide, quite generalised and debatable, very arguable indeed as well as subject to further adjustments, variables and exceptions.
~Quintus~
It would be very comforting to be reassured that Sarah Palin is not representative of the American people generally. She seems to be the equivalent of our own much derided (mostly by men) much despised (mostly by men) Harriet "Harperson" "Batty Hattie"Harman who also seems emit the most extraordinarily bizarre statements often proved to be completely factually inaccurate and displays the same tendency to display symptoms of chronic foot-in-mouth disease.
Each time I tune into Freeview Channel 81 (the UK's Live action Parliamentary TV channel) it is equally comforting to see her now sitting on the Oppostion Front Bench with her noxious wings firmly and irreparably clipped...sadly it doesn't yet apply to her mouth as she still holds the position of Deputy Leader of the gloriously defeated Labour Party.
What a blessing it is for the British public (especially the men) that she is not seeking nomination for Leader of that Party following the electoral demise of lily livered Gordon Brown* as she knows deep down in her black soul that were she ever Leader her Party would be consigned to the political wilderness in the UK for the whole duration of her tenure.
*Gordon Brown.....a loser of a Prime Minister who was never elected to the position in the first place as he merely stepped into Blair's boots after he in turn glibly sailed off to highly remunerative pastures new and making millions in the process.
Battered Brown didn't even have the grace to attend the House of Commons on the day of the Queen's State Opening of Parliament earlier this week....he was conspicuous by his absence in the Palace of Westminster but I suppose he was suffering from two serious medical conditions....a total absence of balls and an on going need to lick electoral wounds recently inflicted.
Each time I tune into Freeview Channel 81 (the UK's Live action Parliamentary TV channel) it is equally comforting to see her now sitting on the Oppostion Front Bench with her noxious wings firmly and irreparably clipped...sadly it doesn't yet apply to her mouth as she still holds the position of Deputy Leader of the gloriously defeated Labour Party.
What a blessing it is for the British public (especially the men) that she is not seeking nomination for Leader of that Party following the electoral demise of lily livered Gordon Brown* as she knows deep down in her black soul that were she ever Leader her Party would be consigned to the political wilderness in the UK for the whole duration of her tenure.
*Gordon Brown.....a loser of a Prime Minister who was never elected to the position in the first place as he merely stepped into Blair's boots after he in turn glibly sailed off to highly remunerative pastures new and making millions in the process.
Battered Brown didn't even have the grace to attend the House of Commons on the day of the Queen's State Opening of Parliament earlier this week....he was conspicuous by his absence in the Palace of Westminster but I suppose he was suffering from two serious medical conditions....a total absence of balls and an on going need to lick electoral wounds recently inflicted.