Spanish should be the second official language of USA

I'm not saying racism doesn't exist in the U.S. It does. Sometimes I get called derogatory names by ignorant bigots. People tell me I should be mowing lawns. And most Anglos treat me as equals, because of my looks, until they find out I'm Mexican. And if you know me for more than a day or so, you will know that I'm Mexican, because I don't hide it. Then, they might look down on me. I am not considered white, even though, physically, I am. I think that's something that's hard for Frenchmen and Latin Americans to understand.

But the same is true for prejudice by minorites against white people. There are probably ten times as many hate crimes commited by blacks and Hispanic people against whites than the other way around today. I have been jumped by several people and beaten up by blacks or dark skinned Mexicans because of the color of my skin more than once! Most minorities derisively refer to White men as "white boys", and refuse to call them "men". They portray white people as sissy cowards, as spoiled people, and they repeatedly stereotype white people. For instance, there are several hollywood movies which make fun of White people, like, "White man can't Jump", or "White boys can't dance". And on television, there are several tv stations reserved exclusively for Black entertainment, and they advertise that they cater to black people. Major corporations will many times refrain from firing or laying off poor, or lazy employees just because they are minorities, and fear a disastrous lawsuit. Believe me, conditions have changed here drastically.

And as for your friend's experience, all I can say is that that is something probably more recent, since 9-11. Our government has abused our civil rights most of the time in secret, and such cases as the one you described might be just that.

"I've never said that racist discrimination does not exist in Latin America but understand it's WAY different to the one from the US where people die because of it since lots of years ago."

I don't know what you mean by dying. The Spanish worked their Indian slaves to death, on a regular basis at one point. That wasn't the case with the U.S., and slavery hasn't existed here in over 100 years. Besides, our natives are well taken care of now. They don't pay taxes, they aren't subject to the majority of our laws, but at the same time, they recieve all of the benefits of being a U.S. citizen, and then some. The government pays for their children to go to university, etc. And there's enough anti-discrimination laws that protect the natives to make your head spin.

Racism might be different in LA, than in North America, but it still exist as a strong under-current in society. You cannot deny that. Nor can you deny that it is any worse in the U.S.

I just think it's a pity that there are still so many natives in Mexico who don't speak Spanish. That's unfortunate for them. I am thinking about learning Nahuatl one day. Or maybe Mayan, because the scenery there is a lot better than the desert.

« I am not considered white, even though, physically, I am. I think that's something that's hard for Frenchmen and Latin Americans to understand. »

Realistically, I think that 'race-relations' in the United States are difficult for *any* Europeans to understand. I certainly don't really understand it. It's just a totally different situation to anything which exists here, despite the desires of some people to see a common 'Anglo-Saxon' mentality all the time.

I agree Benjamin. From a practical, non-philospophical standpoint, the so called "Anglo-Saxon" countries are not nearly as similar as some Latins mistakenly believe. There are huge cultural differences, and England is much closer to Germany or the Netherlands than it is to the U.S. in more ways than one, despite both being "Anglo-Saxon" nations.

I can try to explain the misunderstanding of terms for those of you who are not from the U.S. You would think that "White" would just refer to the color of your skin, since after all, it's a physical description based on visual observation. But, in most cases, for a person from the U.S., if you come from Latin America, then you are automatically "Hispanic or Latino", which is a racial classification based primarily on the standard "Mestizo look" (half European/Native Mix), even though "Hispanic" and "Latino" are only supposed to be cultural definitions, as a person from Latin America can be White, Black, or Native, or any mix of the three. So, if my family is from Mexico, I am now considered part of the "Brown race", and when I am filling out a forum at the doctor's office, or on a standardized test at school, or at a job application, I am supposed to mark the box beside "Latino/Hispanic" for my racial classification.

It gets even more confusing when you have to differentiate between "White" and "Caucasian". Arabs and Persians and North Africans, and Indians are not "White", by the color of their skin, nor are they considered "White" by society, but they mark the box beside the racial classification for "White/Caucasian". And then, there are many southern Europeans, such as some very swarthy Italians and Greeks, who although being Europeans, are sometimes not considered "White". Often times, Spaniards from Spain, and their kids, although directly from the European continent, are not considered "White" or "European", because they have a "Hispanic" last name, and are now grouped with "Hispanic/Latino" racial classification, which categorizes all these people with the physical description of a brown skinned Mestizo from Latin America. Or in my case, I am white skinned, and my racial heritage is Spanish, but because I'm Mexican, I am considered part of the "Brown race", which is synonymous with the name, "Latino/Hispanic".

It's all very stupid. In the U.S., people can really mess up some terms. I guess that's part of our so-called "dialect".

Race has too much importance in the United States. It seems that everyone is always trying to classify people into categories. In a job application or any sort of government related form, you are always asked

What is your race?
- Caucasian (White)
- Negroid (Black)
- Mongoloid (Asian)

What is your ethnicity?
- White
- Hispanic/Latino
- Native American/Pacific Islander/Native Alaskan
- Southeast Asian
And if they're really determined, I've seen classifications that go all the way to Slavs and Turks.

Hispanics are classified as Whites in the race checkmark, unless you are of 'pure' Indian heritage, then you are considered Mongoloid, and if you are not pure then you have to decide whether to be White or Mongoloid, being aware that if you check white and your employer thinks your Mongoloid, he will see you as a liar. Or vice versa.

It's a very big mess here in America.

That's not true. "Negroid" and "Mongoloid" are never used in such a situation. They are very archaic terms, reserved for anthropoligists.

The real ones are as so:
White/Caucasian
African-American/Black
Asian/Pacific Islander
Native American/Native Alaskan/Hawaiin
Hispanic/Latino

tiffany
(Racism is racism, and that's the end of it. It needs to be eradicated no matter what its form. I find it horrible and disgusting that some of you seek to minimize or even dismiss its importance because it's doesn't seem as bad as it might somewhere else.

Racism is a very important issue to me, and a very personal one. My racial make-up makes me a minority no matter where I go. I've seen racism and the stereotypes and prejudices that go along with it first hand. You all need to wake up if you think it's ok as long as people aren't physically dying.

All this "America is so much worse, so let's sweep Mexico's and/or Latin America's problem under the rug" doesn't cut it. And it certainly doesn't make it go away.)

Keep the hope alive. If South Africa could get rid of it's racism the rest of the world can too.

Indeed the racial problem in the US is very diferent from that of South Africa of other times.
I remember going to the Indian areas and they had very nice houses with very intresting decorations. They had the same leval of life the whites had just lived apart. The Africans had a very authentic feel especialy the villages.
This might explain why the segregation and racism died very quickly in South Africa, it was mostly the state that was telling you that the segregation was necessary trying to brainwash you, but it wasn't realy felt deep down by most of the South Africans something I am not seeing in the US case (obviously not all of the US).
Now if you talk about poverty that is a whole new ball game, money dosen't see race or ethnicity and the wealthy don't know what racism is.
If you throw money around everybody likes you no matter what race or creed

<<Sometimes I get called derogatory names by ignorant bigots. People tell me I should be mowing lawns>>

That sounds hard. That's part of the difference what I was talking about. In LA where mestizos and mulatos is the majority to do that is ridiculous. Without a provocation nobody would tell you something like that, at least without receiving a punch in the nose.

JR <<What is your race?
- Caucasian (White)
- Negroid (Black)
- Mongoloid (Asian)

What is your ethnicity?
- White
- Hispanic/Latino
- Native American/Pacific Islander/Native Alaskan
- Southeast Asian
And if they're really determined, I've seen classifications that go all the way to Slavs and Turks. >>

All that is really annoying. We ask as much as you nationality which is enough. Just the fact of doing such separation could be seen as an offence and a government with tact tries to avoid misunderstandings.

<<And on television, there are several tv stations reserved exclusively for Black entertainment, and they advertise that they cater to black people.>>
JR <<It seems that everyone is always trying to classify people into categories.>>

Absolutely d'accord ! There is a tendence to separate people, now you are not just a citizen of the US but an Afro-American, a Italo-American, a something-American, etc, etc. Really I think this doesn't help much. The problem is that in LA there are people like monkeys who love to imitate what US does and such absurd terms blossom around here too. It's as silly as calling white-skinned people : euro-americans or spaniard-americans. Absurd!

<<I don't know what you mean by dying. The Spanish worked their Indian slaves to death, on a regular basis at one point. That wasn't the case with the U.S., and slavery hasn't existed here in over 100 years. >>

No, I was talking about the extreme racism which has produced lots of deaths. For example I remember many years ago when a serial murderer(s) killed some black children during days or weeks. I think it was in Texas or Florida.

Well now of days, it's usually the white people who are on the recieving ends of hate crimes.

Last year, a crowd of young black men attacked a group of young white girls, and beat them to death, while molesting them, screaming "Martin Luther King", and none were convicted of a hate-crime induced murder, which usually carries a death sentence. If it were white men who did that to young black girls, you can guarantee it would be all over the media for months, and all hell would break loose.

In public schools, there are whole months dedicated to the celebration of African-American culture and people. There is a lesser one for Asians, and there is one for Hispanics now too. There are whole school supported clubs for Black people and Black-American culture. We have to watch movies in class honoring and praising Black Americans contributions to society or achievements. Blacks or Hispanic using racial slurs against Whites is extremely common in schools, and accepted. But if a White person calls a minority a racist name, he is usually attacked by a mob, or reported and suspended from school. That's the way it is on the West Coast at least.

It's very interesting how certain terms can get so mixed up from one country to another though. But isn't that what always happens at some point or another? Like Pajamas. They were originally Indian (Hindi) street clothes, but Europeans adopted the name and started wearing them to sleep in. So now, in most languages, "Pajamas" mean sleeping clothes, when originally, they were just a name for regular clothing that working class people wore during the day.

LAA : « From a practical, non-philospophical standpoint, the so called "Anglo-Saxon" countries are not nearly as similar as some Latins mistakenly believe. »

Mais l'adjectif Fr <anglo-saxon> n'a jamais signifié {uniforme} ! L'erreur d'interprétation vient de ce que tu ne connais pas la signification de ce terme en français.

De la même manière, le substantif Fr <femme> ne veut pas dire que tous les femmes sont identiques. Cela signifie simplement qu'il existe un mot en français — [fam(@)] — pour désigner les êtres humains de sexe féminin.

C'est pareil pour [ÃglosaksÕ] : c'est un adjectif qui sert à désigner les être humains, choses ou concepts qui s'inscrivent dans un espace où la présence de l'anglais est un fait majeur.

I don´t understand is why someone goes to another country to live for the rest of their life and doesn´t bother themselves to learn the native language even after been there for 10 years or more. I see this happening everywhere in the world.


If people are immigrating to USA, just learn the damn english, is one of the easiest languages of the world to be learned.

<<If people are immigrating to USA, just learn the damn english, is one of the easiest languages of the world to be learned. >>

Grammatically it is quite accessible but phonetically it's very hard to master specially for native Spanish speakers.

And it is also very difficult for other Germanic speakers to master English phonetics. Our phonetic system is very different from other Germanic languages. Nor is it close to Romance phonetics. So, we're kind of stuck in no-man's land.

Somebody translate Greg's post for me please. I think he said something about the different meaning in French.

Greg,
Just so we're clear on this, could you describe exactly what it is to be an "Anglo-Saxon"? I know in French it has something to do with a specific mentality. This I can understand somewhat. There is an obvious "Anglo-Saxon" work ethic. But, have you really travelled extensively throughout the Anglophone world? We share the same language, and possibly the same attitude towards time, and work ethic, but that is all I could really think of. Oh, and Anglo-Saxon countries share a similar mentality toward sex and nudity, a kind of Protestant mentality. And politically and economically, Anglo-Saxon countries are alike to some extent. That is, they are more conservative (American sense of the word) than continental countries. But what, exactly do you mean by "Anglo-Saxon", the way you use it in French?

Actually, LAA, I think that the French 'anglo-saxon' quite literally does just mean 'natively English-speaking'.

Anyway, here's a translation of what Greg said:

« Mais l'adjectif Fr <anglo-saxon> n'a jamais signifié {uniforme} ! L'erreur d'interprétation vient de ce que tu ne connais pas la signification de ce terme en français. »

The French adjective 'anglo-saxon' has never implied that all societies and people included under it are the same! You misunderstand it because you don't know the meaning of the term in French.

« De la même manière, le substantif Fr <femme> ne veut pas dire que tous les femmes sont identiques. Cela signifie simplement qu'il existe un mot en français — [fam(@)] — pour désigner les êtres humains de sexe féminin. »

Likewise, the French noun 'femme' ('woman') doesn't mean that all women are identical. It simply means that there exits a word in French — [fam(@)] — which refers to humans of the female sex.

« C'est pareil pour [ÃglosaksÕ] : c'est un adjectif qui sert à désigner les être humains, choses ou concepts qui s'inscrivent dans un espace où la présence de l'anglais est un fait majeur. »

It's similar for [ÃglosaksÕ] — it's an adjective used to refer to humans, things or concepts found somewhere where the English language is a major factor.

" But what, exactly do you mean by "Anglo-Saxon", the way you use it in French? "


Anglo-saxon, in French (but also in Spanish with "Anglosajon" and Italian "anglosassone") just means the common cultural heritage of the english speaking peoples from UK and the ex-British colonies.
The same way we say "Hispanic" to relates to the common cultural heritage of the Spanish-speaking countries, despite of their huge differences.

Merci Benjamin pour ton coup de main.

Je tiens à préciser que [ÃglosaksÕ] a également d'autre nuances :

1/ le terme peut, dans certains cas, faire exclusivement référence à la période médiévale

2/ ou, spécifiquement et en contexte, à la réalité des États-Unis (dans le sens de WASP)

3/ ou encore évoquer (mais c'est peu fréquent), et par référence implicite à la romanisation partielle de la langue anglaise, tout ce qui dans cette langue demeure foncièrement et irréductiblement hors du périmètre de cette romanisation.