There was a discussion yesterday on the meaning of the term "Latin", and what criteria constitutes a Latin nation.
One of the criteria points had something to do with the population having a significant, if not majority of its ethnic origin being "Latin".
Carlos, myself, and another person agreed to all the criteria.
Fab questioned the "ethnic" aspect of Latinity, and asked what was a Latin? Did it apply only to the people of Latium, only to the people of the Mediterranean, to the Arabs, just the Italians, or the people of Rome, or what?
I left the answer to that question to Carlos and the other fellow. Unfortunately, they have yet to respond to Fab's question, so I am more than delighted to answer it myself.
The term "Latin", when used in an ethnic context, is a rather ambigious term.
Generally speaking, "Latin" as it pertains to ethnic origins, is used interchangeably with "southern European", or "mediterranean".
That being said, most professional sources would classify the people of the Iberian peninsula, as well as Italy, as being "southern European", or sometimes the expression "Latin" is used.
The people of France's traditional ethnic group, the so called "Gallic majority", are considered to be "Celtic and Latin, with Teutonic". Whereas the people of Spain, Portugal, and Italy are classified as "southern European", also known as, "Mediterranean population", or sometimes the term, "Latin" is used.
Most people would say that Spaniards and Italians are distinctly different looking than the average Frenchmen. Most people don't categorize the French with the Mediterranean peoples of southern Europe, at least outside of France.
The typical Frenchman does not look Teutonic, like your typical Dutchman or German, with the exception of the people of the far north of France, who experienced the least Roman settlement, and the heaviest Frankish settlement.
The typical Frenchman also does not look like the typical Spaniard or Italian either.
The typical Frenchman is somewhat in the middle.
The south of France recieved very little Germanic settlement, while also experiencing, the densest Roman colonization.
The base group of the French were the Gauls, a Celtic people. These Gauls, were then Romanized culturally and linguistically, while predominantly in the southern regions, there was substantial mixing between them and the Romans, who were a mediterranean people.
Evidence of this can be clearly seen by the phenotype of the French people, particularly in the south. The average modern day Frenchman looks nothing like the Celts of Ireland. The French, particuarly in the south, look somewhat like a cross between a mediterranean people and a Celtic people, which they are.
The northern regions of France, recieved very little Roman colonization, as it was geographically more distant from Rome and the Italian peninsula, and because the climate was less suitable to the Roman's fancy, ie. - couldn't grow grapes as much, etc.
So, the majority of the Gauls of the northern regions remained, essentially Celtic in ethnic terms. Northern Gaul later became the recepient of the overwhelming majority of Frankish settlers, who then mixed with the native Celts, producing a people that was most definitely not mediterranean/Latin in origin.
The conception of France as a whole, for those of us outside of France, is that of Paris. In the eyes of most foreigners, Paris symbolizes all the things French, and sets the standard for French culture, language, etc. This is not a false notion, and is backed up by historical evidence. Paris, a northern region, and capital of the Franks, set the standard for the rest of France, and its language was imposed upon the rest of France for the purpose of national unity. Its language, the langue d'oil was more distant from the vulgar Latin descendant languages of the south of France, which had retained more of its Gallo-Roman culture, being that it was the most heavily Romanized, and the least settled by Germanic peoples. The langue d'oil recieved the most Germanic influence on the language, and this can be seen by its unique phonology. Paris and the regions of the north of France, which held a dominant position, being that it was the political, economic, and cultural center of the country, spread its language and culture to the rest of France, so that today, France is essentially thought of as Parisian.
For Fab and Greg, who insist on claiming that France is just as "Latin" as Spain or Italy, I give you this.
France is indeed a Latin country because its cultural historical base is Gallo-Roman, not withstanding significant Frankish influence, and its language and religion are derived from Rome. So, France is a Latin country.
But where Fab and myself/Frederick From Norway differ, is that we feel that France is more alienated from Latin culture than Spain or Italy are.
These are the reasons we do not identify France with Spain and Italy, the same way we do amongst each other.
Latin people are very exuberant, amorous, passionate, warm, familial, open, vivacious, and the culture is somewhat more effeminate, less war-like, etc. When I think Latin I think of the western Mediterranean countries, and vibrant colors, etc. They eat a Mediterranean cuisine, which is olive oil based, garlic, wine, light meals, etc. Northern European people are more reserved, restrained, less linked with the arts, less emotional, less family oriented, and less effeminate, more masculine. They are a stouter people. They eat big/heavy/hardy meals, featuring a lot of meat and potatoes. They are a beer based culture.
France is in between the two. They are more of a middle ground. Almost everyone you talk to, outside of France, will say the same thing. The people themselves are clearly not Teutonic looking for the most part, maybe with the exception of the far northern provinces. Yet, they are not Mediterranean looking for the most part either, so that they are sort of a middle ground between the phenotypes of the northern peoples and the southern peoples. The language is a Romance language, but yet, more flat, and without the same rhythm that Spanish and Italian have, which subconsciously gives you the impression that the language is less Mediterranean or southern European. The traditional religion of France was Catholicism, but the France was historically never as Catholic as Spain and Italy. France had the wars of religion, where the country was divided between the Catholics and the Protestants, so that there was a very large Protestant minority. Such a dissension from the Catholic faith would never have been tolerated or taken root in Spain and Italy. Whole sections of France were autonomous Protestant domains! King Henry was himself a Protestant when he ascended to the throne. When the revolution took place in France, the bourgeoisie confiscated the wealth of the Catholic Church, and slaughtered the clergy. This shows the anti-clerical/papist undercurrent of French society, which was not existent in all too Catholic Spain and Italy. Since then, the French government and society have undergone extensive secularization (1800-1900 time period). I know that nearly all western governments have done the same thing in the last century, but prior to that, in the 1800s, French society had already been secularized, while life in Spain and Italy was still dominated by the dictates of the Church. French cuisine is varied, but the French standard in international eyes, is Parisian cuisine. “What is often known outside of France as French cuisine is the traditionally elaborate haute cuisine, served in restaurants for high prices. This cuisine is mostly influenced by the regional cuisines of Lyon and northern France, with a marked touch of refinement.” French food is rich, full of thick sauces, a butter based cuisine like much of northern Europe, whereas Mediterranean cooking is olive oil based. The people themselves are in between the southern Europeans and the northern Europeans in their temperment and disposition. They don’t hesitate to show affection the same way northern European do. They kiss their friends on the cheek, etc. But they are also more reserved, more restrained than southern Europeans are. Ask anybody outside of France, and this opinion is nearly unanimous. The French are very concerned with manners and formalities, which is not a southern European characteristic. The climate, which subconsciously effects a person’s view of the country, is also very northern European. Southern France is very mediterranean yes, but to international eyes, France is seen through the prisims of Paris, which is situated in Northern Europe. It snows there, and is cold there, etc.
Those are all reasons why I don’t associate France with southern Europe as clearly as I do Spain and Italy. But, as I’ve said, I don’t associate France with northern Europe like Germany and Holland either.
These are what makes France “Latin”. The French have this Latin mentality to some extent, where you are supposed to take life slow, and enjoy it. Enjoy the fine things of life. Take the afternoon off, and enjoy the company of your friends or family, over a civilized lunch meal, with a glass of wine. Meals are not heavy like German or Dutch cuisine. The French are romanticists. They are occupied with love and romance. The French are very chic. France is famous for its fashion, design, art, etc. None of these factors are characteristics of northern European countries. Although the French language sounds more removed from the Latin base, it is still a Romance language nonetheless. And although France’s history is less of a Catholic one than Spain and Italy, French culture’s religious aspect was still shaped by a Catholic past. And there are parts of southern France which are very mediterranean. When you think of France, what often comes to mind, is rolling hills of vinyards, and the French riviera. French attitudes toward sex is also very southern European. French women frequently take their tops off at the beach, as if it were no problem. This is not as common among northern European cultures, and is considered more of a cultural taboo. The French are a very sensual, and volouptous people like the Italians and Spaniards are. This is not a northern European characteristic.
So, my opion, which is shared by most people I come in contact with outside of France, is that France is a Latin country, but is a middle ground between northern Europe and southern Europe.
The following are quotes from a discussion between Fab and Frederick. If you would like to read the debate in its entirety, you can select the link below.
http://www.antimoon.com/forum/posts/6655-2.htm
"Although the French language is based predominately on Latin, the French people I have talked to ( from both France and Quebec) definitely don't like to be lumped together with the Spanish, Italians, Romanians and South Americans. When I told a French-Canadian friend of mine (Jean-Paul Gagnon) once that the Latin peoples were the "Spaniards, Italians, Romanians and possibly the French" he promptly corrected me and said said "No, we consider ourselves to be a Germanic people," and a French woman I met from Lyons about 25 years ago expressed nothing but contempt for the Spanish language when I told her that I had studied a lot of Spanish but not much French."
"might feel that French lacks, for instance, the typical –a and –o endings that make other Romance languages sound ‘Latin’." The French language itself sounds very distant from the other Latin languages, as opposed to say, Italian and Spanish.
"Of course linguistically the French are Latin / Romance, but ethnically I would say Gallic, just like the Spanish are Latin - Iberian.
Latin culture in Europe - isn't that in some way connected to Mediterranean culture? At least Provence feels more Latin than Normandy does!"
" don't think the Romans wiped out all Gauls and completely settled France with Romans. I was more like fabbrice says about Spain: Quite a lot of Romans came and mixed with the local Gauls, who then adopted the Latin language. I suspect you have read too much Asterix!
You don't have to have red hair to be a Celt! That is mostly people in Ireland and Scotland. Welsh people are known as not very tall, with brown hair and brown eyes, much like the French! Do all Bretons (who are also Celts) have red hair?
Of course most of France is Latin in the linguistical sense. But culturally I think Central France resembles Germany just as much as it does resemble Italy and Spain. (I suppose this will drive you crazy!!!) And I don't mean that Central France is Germanic, just that it is Central European."
"The fact that French differs much more from Latin than Italian and Spanish (especially when it comes to pronounciation) point to the fact that there was a large native Gallic population who adopted the foreign Latin language. "
"If Latin culture is defined as western Mediterranean culture then Italy, Southern France and Spain would have Latin cultures." - I agree.
"Italian and Spanish are closer to Latin than French is.
This may be because:
- Italy and Spain were more familiar to the homeland of the Romans (Latium), so they colonized it more thoroughly
- The influence of the Germanic migrations was smaller in Italy and Spain than in France"
" What is so Latin about Normandy, French Flanders, Artois, Ile-de-France, Champagne etc., except the language? People grow and drink wine, but that is done in Southern Germany, too! People have a midday break and hot lunch, but that is similar in much of Germany, too!"
"Linguistically and culturally all of you are Latin. But France is the bridge between Southern and Northern Europe. Today there is a common French culture in all France, but historically there has been a big divide between North and South in France. People in Normandy are not as warm-blooded, hot-tempered, life-enjoying, amourous as people in Provence, Languedoc etc, I think. The famous French "raison" does not seem very Mediterranean!
I am an amateur in Romance languages, but to me Spanish and Italian look more similar. Casa, si, gracias/grazie etc.
But I can see the phonetic similarities between French and Italian (giorno / jour), and also that written French shows that French used to be much closer than today's spoken French is." - I agree!!!
"I think you guys are very post-1789 French, when France tried to establish a uniform French culture in all of France. England and Germany were the big enemies, so France had to prove that it was exclusively Latin and not Northern European at all!"
"Saying that people in Orleans and Napoli share the same Latin culture is like saying that Norway and Germany share the same Germanic culture. Maybe 50 % correct, but not more."
" And that idea is the idea of a LATIN France. We are not uncivilized barbarians like the Germans, the English or the Americans!!!!"
"Yes, linguistically you are all Latin. But culturally? That is more dubious... "
"To me, Latin is about sexiness (which central, rural France is not!), pulsating life, a live-and-let-go attitude, openness, superficiality, a distrust in the state, a strong belief in family, a cuisine with a lot of vegetables, spices and fish, strong colours, wine etc." - I AGREE STRONGLY!!!
"Take film for instance:
Italian and Spanish film have a sentimental simplicity that can be really heart-warming! Noisy, but loving. French films are more silent and sad..."
"No, not spicy as in Latin America. But like herbes de Provence...
Yes, white (and pink etc.!) houses! While in Northern France they are grey and brown.
Superficial at first glance, but (especially Spaniards) deep and tragic, yes! That is to me Latin: People sitting together, and suddenly wanting to laugh, sing etc just because they are together and they know the world is old and cruel, but also beautiful." - very true
"But France is often so very refined, so aristocratic, so pessimistic, so quarrelsome.
Although Spain and Italy can be refined they are simple and basic at the same time.
This is best seen in films and cuisine." - I AGREE STRONGLY WITH THIS QUOTE ALSO
"Of course my image of France is very coloured by Paris. Because Paris defines Frenchness" - to outsiders at least. I AGREE
"But don't misunderstand me, I love the more positive sides of France. The enjoyment of civilized company, of manners (bonjour, madame!), of living the perfect, Gallic lifestyle, the charmingly naïve beflief in that life outside France is not liveable, the passion people have for cheeses, the energy people use in keeping traditions alive just because they are French and lovely etc... " - I agree. I love the uniqueness of French culture. But these examples are not mediterranean.
"I have to say that my belief is: Culture changes a bit from region to region, and not in big jumps. Holland share something with Flanders and Flanders share something with Wallonia and Wallonia with Northern France and Northern France with Central France and Central France with Southern France and Southern France with Catalonia and Catalonia with Central Spain and Central Spain with Andalusia and Andalusia with Morocco....
Nationalistic powerhouses like Paris, Madrid, Rome, Oslo, London can influence the whole country, but less and less as you move towards the edge/border... " - I agree
"
One of the criteria points had something to do with the population having a significant, if not majority of its ethnic origin being "Latin".
Carlos, myself, and another person agreed to all the criteria.
Fab questioned the "ethnic" aspect of Latinity, and asked what was a Latin? Did it apply only to the people of Latium, only to the people of the Mediterranean, to the Arabs, just the Italians, or the people of Rome, or what?
I left the answer to that question to Carlos and the other fellow. Unfortunately, they have yet to respond to Fab's question, so I am more than delighted to answer it myself.
The term "Latin", when used in an ethnic context, is a rather ambigious term.
Generally speaking, "Latin" as it pertains to ethnic origins, is used interchangeably with "southern European", or "mediterranean".
That being said, most professional sources would classify the people of the Iberian peninsula, as well as Italy, as being "southern European", or sometimes the expression "Latin" is used.
The people of France's traditional ethnic group, the so called "Gallic majority", are considered to be "Celtic and Latin, with Teutonic". Whereas the people of Spain, Portugal, and Italy are classified as "southern European", also known as, "Mediterranean population", or sometimes the term, "Latin" is used.
Most people would say that Spaniards and Italians are distinctly different looking than the average Frenchmen. Most people don't categorize the French with the Mediterranean peoples of southern Europe, at least outside of France.
The typical Frenchman does not look Teutonic, like your typical Dutchman or German, with the exception of the people of the far north of France, who experienced the least Roman settlement, and the heaviest Frankish settlement.
The typical Frenchman also does not look like the typical Spaniard or Italian either.
The typical Frenchman is somewhat in the middle.
The south of France recieved very little Germanic settlement, while also experiencing, the densest Roman colonization.
The base group of the French were the Gauls, a Celtic people. These Gauls, were then Romanized culturally and linguistically, while predominantly in the southern regions, there was substantial mixing between them and the Romans, who were a mediterranean people.
Evidence of this can be clearly seen by the phenotype of the French people, particularly in the south. The average modern day Frenchman looks nothing like the Celts of Ireland. The French, particuarly in the south, look somewhat like a cross between a mediterranean people and a Celtic people, which they are.
The northern regions of France, recieved very little Roman colonization, as it was geographically more distant from Rome and the Italian peninsula, and because the climate was less suitable to the Roman's fancy, ie. - couldn't grow grapes as much, etc.
So, the majority of the Gauls of the northern regions remained, essentially Celtic in ethnic terms. Northern Gaul later became the recepient of the overwhelming majority of Frankish settlers, who then mixed with the native Celts, producing a people that was most definitely not mediterranean/Latin in origin.
The conception of France as a whole, for those of us outside of France, is that of Paris. In the eyes of most foreigners, Paris symbolizes all the things French, and sets the standard for French culture, language, etc. This is not a false notion, and is backed up by historical evidence. Paris, a northern region, and capital of the Franks, set the standard for the rest of France, and its language was imposed upon the rest of France for the purpose of national unity. Its language, the langue d'oil was more distant from the vulgar Latin descendant languages of the south of France, which had retained more of its Gallo-Roman culture, being that it was the most heavily Romanized, and the least settled by Germanic peoples. The langue d'oil recieved the most Germanic influence on the language, and this can be seen by its unique phonology. Paris and the regions of the north of France, which held a dominant position, being that it was the political, economic, and cultural center of the country, spread its language and culture to the rest of France, so that today, France is essentially thought of as Parisian.
For Fab and Greg, who insist on claiming that France is just as "Latin" as Spain or Italy, I give you this.
France is indeed a Latin country because its cultural historical base is Gallo-Roman, not withstanding significant Frankish influence, and its language and religion are derived from Rome. So, France is a Latin country.
But where Fab and myself/Frederick From Norway differ, is that we feel that France is more alienated from Latin culture than Spain or Italy are.
These are the reasons we do not identify France with Spain and Italy, the same way we do amongst each other.
Latin people are very exuberant, amorous, passionate, warm, familial, open, vivacious, and the culture is somewhat more effeminate, less war-like, etc. When I think Latin I think of the western Mediterranean countries, and vibrant colors, etc. They eat a Mediterranean cuisine, which is olive oil based, garlic, wine, light meals, etc. Northern European people are more reserved, restrained, less linked with the arts, less emotional, less family oriented, and less effeminate, more masculine. They are a stouter people. They eat big/heavy/hardy meals, featuring a lot of meat and potatoes. They are a beer based culture.
France is in between the two. They are more of a middle ground. Almost everyone you talk to, outside of France, will say the same thing. The people themselves are clearly not Teutonic looking for the most part, maybe with the exception of the far northern provinces. Yet, they are not Mediterranean looking for the most part either, so that they are sort of a middle ground between the phenotypes of the northern peoples and the southern peoples. The language is a Romance language, but yet, more flat, and without the same rhythm that Spanish and Italian have, which subconsciously gives you the impression that the language is less Mediterranean or southern European. The traditional religion of France was Catholicism, but the France was historically never as Catholic as Spain and Italy. France had the wars of religion, where the country was divided between the Catholics and the Protestants, so that there was a very large Protestant minority. Such a dissension from the Catholic faith would never have been tolerated or taken root in Spain and Italy. Whole sections of France were autonomous Protestant domains! King Henry was himself a Protestant when he ascended to the throne. When the revolution took place in France, the bourgeoisie confiscated the wealth of the Catholic Church, and slaughtered the clergy. This shows the anti-clerical/papist undercurrent of French society, which was not existent in all too Catholic Spain and Italy. Since then, the French government and society have undergone extensive secularization (1800-1900 time period). I know that nearly all western governments have done the same thing in the last century, but prior to that, in the 1800s, French society had already been secularized, while life in Spain and Italy was still dominated by the dictates of the Church. French cuisine is varied, but the French standard in international eyes, is Parisian cuisine. “What is often known outside of France as French cuisine is the traditionally elaborate haute cuisine, served in restaurants for high prices. This cuisine is mostly influenced by the regional cuisines of Lyon and northern France, with a marked touch of refinement.” French food is rich, full of thick sauces, a butter based cuisine like much of northern Europe, whereas Mediterranean cooking is olive oil based. The people themselves are in between the southern Europeans and the northern Europeans in their temperment and disposition. They don’t hesitate to show affection the same way northern European do. They kiss their friends on the cheek, etc. But they are also more reserved, more restrained than southern Europeans are. Ask anybody outside of France, and this opinion is nearly unanimous. The French are very concerned with manners and formalities, which is not a southern European characteristic. The climate, which subconsciously effects a person’s view of the country, is also very northern European. Southern France is very mediterranean yes, but to international eyes, France is seen through the prisims of Paris, which is situated in Northern Europe. It snows there, and is cold there, etc.
Those are all reasons why I don’t associate France with southern Europe as clearly as I do Spain and Italy. But, as I’ve said, I don’t associate France with northern Europe like Germany and Holland either.
These are what makes France “Latin”. The French have this Latin mentality to some extent, where you are supposed to take life slow, and enjoy it. Enjoy the fine things of life. Take the afternoon off, and enjoy the company of your friends or family, over a civilized lunch meal, with a glass of wine. Meals are not heavy like German or Dutch cuisine. The French are romanticists. They are occupied with love and romance. The French are very chic. France is famous for its fashion, design, art, etc. None of these factors are characteristics of northern European countries. Although the French language sounds more removed from the Latin base, it is still a Romance language nonetheless. And although France’s history is less of a Catholic one than Spain and Italy, French culture’s religious aspect was still shaped by a Catholic past. And there are parts of southern France which are very mediterranean. When you think of France, what often comes to mind, is rolling hills of vinyards, and the French riviera. French attitudes toward sex is also very southern European. French women frequently take their tops off at the beach, as if it were no problem. This is not as common among northern European cultures, and is considered more of a cultural taboo. The French are a very sensual, and volouptous people like the Italians and Spaniards are. This is not a northern European characteristic.
So, my opion, which is shared by most people I come in contact with outside of France, is that France is a Latin country, but is a middle ground between northern Europe and southern Europe.
The following are quotes from a discussion between Fab and Frederick. If you would like to read the debate in its entirety, you can select the link below.
http://www.antimoon.com/forum/posts/6655-2.htm
"Although the French language is based predominately on Latin, the French people I have talked to ( from both France and Quebec) definitely don't like to be lumped together with the Spanish, Italians, Romanians and South Americans. When I told a French-Canadian friend of mine (Jean-Paul Gagnon) once that the Latin peoples were the "Spaniards, Italians, Romanians and possibly the French" he promptly corrected me and said said "No, we consider ourselves to be a Germanic people," and a French woman I met from Lyons about 25 years ago expressed nothing but contempt for the Spanish language when I told her that I had studied a lot of Spanish but not much French."
"might feel that French lacks, for instance, the typical –a and –o endings that make other Romance languages sound ‘Latin’." The French language itself sounds very distant from the other Latin languages, as opposed to say, Italian and Spanish.
"Of course linguistically the French are Latin / Romance, but ethnically I would say Gallic, just like the Spanish are Latin - Iberian.
Latin culture in Europe - isn't that in some way connected to Mediterranean culture? At least Provence feels more Latin than Normandy does!"
" don't think the Romans wiped out all Gauls and completely settled France with Romans. I was more like fabbrice says about Spain: Quite a lot of Romans came and mixed with the local Gauls, who then adopted the Latin language. I suspect you have read too much Asterix!
You don't have to have red hair to be a Celt! That is mostly people in Ireland and Scotland. Welsh people are known as not very tall, with brown hair and brown eyes, much like the French! Do all Bretons (who are also Celts) have red hair?
Of course most of France is Latin in the linguistical sense. But culturally I think Central France resembles Germany just as much as it does resemble Italy and Spain. (I suppose this will drive you crazy!!!) And I don't mean that Central France is Germanic, just that it is Central European."
"The fact that French differs much more from Latin than Italian and Spanish (especially when it comes to pronounciation) point to the fact that there was a large native Gallic population who adopted the foreign Latin language. "
"If Latin culture is defined as western Mediterranean culture then Italy, Southern France and Spain would have Latin cultures." - I agree.
"Italian and Spanish are closer to Latin than French is.
This may be because:
- Italy and Spain were more familiar to the homeland of the Romans (Latium), so they colonized it more thoroughly
- The influence of the Germanic migrations was smaller in Italy and Spain than in France"
" What is so Latin about Normandy, French Flanders, Artois, Ile-de-France, Champagne etc., except the language? People grow and drink wine, but that is done in Southern Germany, too! People have a midday break and hot lunch, but that is similar in much of Germany, too!"
"Linguistically and culturally all of you are Latin. But France is the bridge between Southern and Northern Europe. Today there is a common French culture in all France, but historically there has been a big divide between North and South in France. People in Normandy are not as warm-blooded, hot-tempered, life-enjoying, amourous as people in Provence, Languedoc etc, I think. The famous French "raison" does not seem very Mediterranean!
I am an amateur in Romance languages, but to me Spanish and Italian look more similar. Casa, si, gracias/grazie etc.
But I can see the phonetic similarities between French and Italian (giorno / jour), and also that written French shows that French used to be much closer than today's spoken French is." - I agree!!!
"I think you guys are very post-1789 French, when France tried to establish a uniform French culture in all of France. England and Germany were the big enemies, so France had to prove that it was exclusively Latin and not Northern European at all!"
"Saying that people in Orleans and Napoli share the same Latin culture is like saying that Norway and Germany share the same Germanic culture. Maybe 50 % correct, but not more."
" And that idea is the idea of a LATIN France. We are not uncivilized barbarians like the Germans, the English or the Americans!!!!"
"Yes, linguistically you are all Latin. But culturally? That is more dubious... "
"To me, Latin is about sexiness (which central, rural France is not!), pulsating life, a live-and-let-go attitude, openness, superficiality, a distrust in the state, a strong belief in family, a cuisine with a lot of vegetables, spices and fish, strong colours, wine etc." - I AGREE STRONGLY!!!
"Take film for instance:
Italian and Spanish film have a sentimental simplicity that can be really heart-warming! Noisy, but loving. French films are more silent and sad..."
"No, not spicy as in Latin America. But like herbes de Provence...
Yes, white (and pink etc.!) houses! While in Northern France they are grey and brown.
Superficial at first glance, but (especially Spaniards) deep and tragic, yes! That is to me Latin: People sitting together, and suddenly wanting to laugh, sing etc just because they are together and they know the world is old and cruel, but also beautiful." - very true
"But France is often so very refined, so aristocratic, so pessimistic, so quarrelsome.
Although Spain and Italy can be refined they are simple and basic at the same time.
This is best seen in films and cuisine." - I AGREE STRONGLY WITH THIS QUOTE ALSO
"Of course my image of France is very coloured by Paris. Because Paris defines Frenchness" - to outsiders at least. I AGREE
"But don't misunderstand me, I love the more positive sides of France. The enjoyment of civilized company, of manners (bonjour, madame!), of living the perfect, Gallic lifestyle, the charmingly naïve beflief in that life outside France is not liveable, the passion people have for cheeses, the energy people use in keeping traditions alive just because they are French and lovely etc... " - I agree. I love the uniqueness of French culture. But these examples are not mediterranean.
"I have to say that my belief is: Culture changes a bit from region to region, and not in big jumps. Holland share something with Flanders and Flanders share something with Wallonia and Wallonia with Northern France and Northern France with Central France and Central France with Southern France and Southern France with Catalonia and Catalonia with Central Spain and Central Spain with Andalusia and Andalusia with Morocco....
Nationalistic powerhouses like Paris, Madrid, Rome, Oslo, London can influence the whole country, but less and less as you move towards the edge/border... " - I agree
"