Southern European arrogance???

I think we call those "strawberry blonde" for the lighter version of red hair, and "auburn" for the darker reddish-brown version.

But at least we're both consistent -- an orange tabby cat is called a ginger cat in the UK and (officially) a red tabby in the US -- at least among cat breeders, who like to come up with fancy names for colors. (Most ordinary Americans just say "orange tabby".)

"Strawberry blonde" pisses me off. Such a euphemism, the ginger bastards the.

Really? Seems like an innocuous term. Sort of like strawberry lemonade -- a normally yellowing drink tinged with light red.

zxczxc : « the Germanic ones were more fierce in their actions and the general population more willing to fight against the Nazis »
Tu veux dire comme l'armée britannique qui s'est enfuie à Dunkerque comme une poule mouillée et qui a dû attendre l'occupation états-unienne sur son propre sol pour reprendre courage ?


zxczxc : « whereas the likes of Vichy France saw people far more willing to grass their neighbours up for their own short-term benefit »
En tout cas, les juifs qui vivaient sous Vichy ont survécu à 80 % à l'extermination nazie (un parti politique germanique, je crois...) alors que leus corréligionnaires néerlandais ont quasiment tous disparu. Parmi les risques encourus à court-terme par les Français qui ont caché les juifs, il y avait le peloton d'exécution, la déportation et bien sûr les représailles contre la famille.


zxczxc : « the Germanic ones are the Protestant ones, and value liberty more. »
Bon, je crois que notre ami zxczxc (un pseudo qui indique sans doute une certaine confusion mentale...) a besoin de quelques renseignements.
La Bavière et l'Autriche, apparemment germaniques, sont catholiques.
Le colonialisme britannique, le nazisme allemand, le racisme institutionnel des Éats-Unis et de l'Afrique-du-Sud sont bien entendu des preuves éclatantes que la liberté a toujours été une valeur cardinale dans ces pays.

zxczxc :
^^ the Germanic ones were more fierce in their actions and the general population more willing to fight against the Nazis ^^

More fierce? The Nazis were the Germans.

Yes Brennus,

It is time to get back to the languages. But before we leave: zxczxc you should think a little bit more before you write something if you really are interested in being taken as a serious person in this forum. Brittish humour is one thing, and a just love the Brittish sarcasm.

Deploying cheap thoughts without thinking a bit more about the consequences and putting things in a biased context is something different.

I find that Spanish, Rortuguese, And Italian speaking people have a certain level of respect and acceptance of one another whereas if they encounter a Northern European, they are likely to encounter a certain level of condescending arrogance toward them. I know this from experience. No, I don't perceive any kind of Latin/Southern European arroganc, in fact, I think that it is the other way around. Northern Europeans have a tendency to be disrespectful and mean spirited toward Southern Europeans.

Okay... and to greg, I can't speak a word of French. What you write is wasted on me.

And Germanic doesn't equate to German.

Neither do I,

What surely happens is that it is more probable that Spanish speakers (I will not speak for other Romance languages speakers) do not normally have such a command of the English language, as to be confident enough, and they will feel always more confortable if they find someone who can help them in Spanish. I know what you wrote before, but the fact that they are visiting USA doesn't imply that they can speak English so well. If you visit Poland, you will not necessarily learn Polish before, so it is a bit the same for Spanish speakers visitors, IF and ONLY IF they do not speak English so well. I am not generalizing here.

On the other side, most of Northern Europeans happen to speak a Germanic language, which renders it easier for them to learn English, and finally, you should take in account something:

Dutch, Swedish, Norwegian, Danish, Icelandic are languages with relatively few native speakers, and unleass foreigners live and work in these countries, there are just few people who are able to speak their languages (they are not *commercially* attractive). They have to compensate this *handicap* by having to study one ore more foreign languages; therefore they are normally quite skilled in learning languages. English (a Germanic language in structure, much of phonetics, vocabulary and expressions) happens to be now the international language, so they have an advantage in learning it, in comparison to other peoples whose language belongs to another language family. Again, I am not generalizing.
There are very bad English speakers in Northern Europe as well...

Sorry, I was quoting the posting of a.p.a.m., and agreeing with him.

>No, I don't perceive any kind of Latin/Southern European arrogance

Thanks Ureal I couldn't have said it better myself.

(I'm going to have to respectfully beg to differ. Ever seen real ginger? It's ... tan, Beige, even. Not even a hint of orangeness to it -- orange being the "true" color of "red" hair. So I've never understood how British people could look at a light brown piece of aromatic root and equate it with orange hair!)

The more commen term is carrot top.Like the former Portuguese prisedent George Sampaio.

Okay, before we get too sidetracked about hair, I would like to say one thing. Hair that is bright red/orange, usually accompanied by pale skin and freckles, is more of a reddish-orange color. The other common form of "red" hair, is auburn, as it is a mix of brown/red. Several people in my family have this type of hair.

Sergio,
These people DO speak English, and they have command of the language. I always ask them in their native tounge, if they speak English. And this is what really floors me. Some of them, ie. Italians, Portuguese, etc., have a strong command of English, but no formal training in Spanish, and STILL prefer for me to speak in Spanish! I don't get this. It's like they despise hearing a "barbarian" language or something. Adults of the 21st century can't possibly think in those terms, but they do have a very weird attitude about it. Most northerners speak English as a second language, and they really do not like Latin languages as well, so it's a matter of perspective. In my case, my English vocabulary is many times greater than my Spanish vocabulary, and I'm sure I make grammatical mistakes sometimes in Spanish. Yet, I can understand several times more Italian than I can Dutch or German.

As I'm sure you all know, languages have unique thought patterns. The order of words, sentence structure, grammar, etc. So, many times, I think first in English and then translate in my brain before I speak. However, after speaking Spanish for an extended period of time, I start thinking in Spanish, and my brain does not have to compute between English to Spanish. Do you guys still do this with foreign languages?

Of all the foreign tourists here, I must say that Latin Americans are the most friendly. When the Columbians, Argentinians, etc., see that I speak Spanish to them, and that I'm of Latin American origin myself, their face lights up, they shake my hand, we exchange "mucho gusto"s, etc.

There are exceptions to all these generalizations. There is no doubt about that, as people are still people, no matter where you go. But, as a rule, I have percieved that southern Europeans, even those who speak English, seem to look down on you until you speak a Romance language. Northern Europeans also, who have learned Spanish or another Romance language, still prefer to speak in English. Usually the people my age might know a Romance language like Spanish, but they hate it. This I don't understand. For a Germanic speaker, it seems very foreign and alien to them, which is understandable. But I don't see how they can't find it attractive. Whatever floats their boat.

««Some of them, ie. Italians, Portuguese, etc., have a strong command of English, but no formal training in Spanish, and STILL prefer for me to speak in Spanish! I don't get this.»»

Portuguese? Are you not exaggerating? Why would a Portuguese prefer that you speak Spanish if they have a strong command of English? I would understand if it was Portuguese you spoke. Ha! It must be because you give them the possibility to answer to you in Portuguese. You are most probably speaking about people that have been away from Portugal for some time.

««It's like they despise hearing a "barbarian" language or something. »»

Well, this is your imagination working.

««But, as a rule, I have perceived that southern Europeans, even those who speak English, seem to look down on you until you speak a Romance language. »»

They are on holidays, or something!! Why would they want to speak with you if most just want peace and quiet? They pay to enjoy their rest not to chat with you or anyone else. Try a hotel full of N. American tourists; see how they treat you if you work in the hotel.

I also live in the hotel, and I'm a guest here. I meet them at the pool, or in the jaccuzzi.

And I said I know they can't possibly think in terms of "barbarian vs. Roman". Evidently, you missed that part.

Hi LAA,

>It's like they despise hearing a "barbarian" language or something
I have never heard this adjective being used by Romance speaking people when referring to English. Aren't you exaggerating your conception?

>Do you guys still do this with foreign languages?
Yes, it happens to me when I keep speaking a foreign language for time enough... it's like reordering the forniture in your head.... it's quite funny!!

>Northern Europeans also, who have learned Spanish or another Romance language, still prefer to speak in English. Usually the people my age might know a Romance language like Spanish, but they hate it.
This is your experience. My experience is all the way around: Romance languages are a sort of fashion among Northeuropeans, and they enjoy learning them and speaking them whenever it's possible.