LOL--- Colourful explanation, I can imagine the picture. But in fact true. Something similar happens in the development of a pidgin, doesn't it?
How does Afrikaans grammar compare to English grammar
Brendon
(vós sois /you[pl] are/)
Is incorrect it should be
vocês são
Ah but Sander forgot one of the biggest reasons. The will to change the language. There was an extra effort by the Afrikaaners to change the language as The Netherlands never realy gave them support.
A good example was the dropping of the 'U' (formal you) in the spoken language, which I still remember people using and when it stopped being used.
In my view the Dutch are great at creating languages. Two have come out of it, one makes sense Afrikaans the other dosn't Flemish.
Product ingredients are sometimes written in Dutch and Flemish and you can't see a big difference between the two.
(vós sois /you[pl] are/)
Is incorrect it should be
vocês são
Ah but Sander forgot one of the biggest reasons. The will to change the language. There was an extra effort by the Afrikaaners to change the language as The Netherlands never realy gave them support.
A good example was the dropping of the 'U' (formal you) in the spoken language, which I still remember people using and when it stopped being used.
In my view the Dutch are great at creating languages. Two have come out of it, one makes sense Afrikaans the other dosn't Flemish.
Product ingredients are sometimes written in Dutch and Flemish and you can't see a big difference between the two.
Brendon
You are trying to compare the case of Afrikaans and Dutch with Br Portuguese with Pr Portuguese yet you don't know anythig about these two languages. I have studed some Dutch and I can tell you thismuch, these are indeed two different languages, but Br Portuguese and Pr Portugese are not as they are still much more similer then different. Don't let your national pride get in the way of good judgement.
You are trying to compare the case of Afrikaans and Dutch with Br Portuguese with Pr Portuguese yet you don't know anythig about these two languages. I have studed some Dutch and I can tell you thismuch, these are indeed two different languages, but Br Portuguese and Pr Portugese are not as they are still much more similer then different. Don't let your national pride get in the way of good judgement.
>>In my view the Dutch are great at creating languages. Two have come out of it, one makes sense Afrikaans the other dosn't Flemish. <<
As for as I know Dutch has ony one decendant (excluding various pidgins/creols) and that's Afrikaans, because last time I checked, Flemish was still a dialect.
As for as I know Dutch has ony one decendant (excluding various pidgins/creols) and that's Afrikaans, because last time I checked, Flemish was still a dialect.
''Is incorrect it should be
vocês são ''
Here in Brazil we are taught [in schools] ''VÓS SOIS'' and not VOCÊS SÃO.
sou, és, é, somos, sois, são
VOCÊS is not a pronoun.
vocês são ''
Here in Brazil we are taught [in schools] ''VÓS SOIS'' and not VOCÊS SÃO.
sou, és, é, somos, sois, são
VOCÊS is not a pronoun.
Olá Disk-Meia9,
Yes and not.
>Here in Brazil we are taught [in schools] ''VÓS SOIS''
This is the yes. It is correct.
>VOCÊS is not a pronoun
This is the not. Vocês is the formal version of vós. Exactly like Ustedes for vosotros in Spanish. Thus, this is a pronoun and is as valid as the other pronouns.
Yes and not.
>Here in Brazil we are taught [in schools] ''VÓS SOIS''
This is the yes. It is correct.
>VOCÊS is not a pronoun
This is the not. Vocês is the formal version of vós. Exactly like Ustedes for vosotros in Spanish. Thus, this is a pronoun and is as valid as the other pronouns.
'vos' is archaic and only used in isolated areas of some regions of Portugal mainly in Trás-os-Montes and mostly by older people.
Sander
I have spoken to some Belguins that said Dutch is too different, but I don't find that at all. To me Flemish sounds like Dutch with the exception of the pronounced '...en' at the end of the words and a with out a uviler 'r'. A dialect as you have written before.
Sander
I have spoken to some Belguins that said Dutch is too different, but I don't find that at all. To me Flemish sounds like Dutch with the exception of the pronounced '...en' at the end of the words and a with out a uviler 'r'. A dialect as you have written before.
>>I have spoken to some Belguins that said Dutch is too different, but I don't find that at all. To me Flemish sounds like Dutch with the exception of the pronounced '...en' at the end of the words and a with out a uviler 'r'. A dialect as you have written before. <<
Belgians can say all they want, it's a dialect.
Belgians can say all they want, it's a dialect.
<Also, mass education in the Netherlands wouldn't start for another 100 years from the time the Dutch colonists left for South Africa, good education was only for the wealthier citizens, and they didn't leave for the colonies.>
It reminds me of the British colonies in the Americas when there wasn't a 'standard' for the English system of spelling for both the UK and it's colonies.
What amazes me that Afrikaans took a further step and developed to an extent where Afrikaans is considered not a dialect of Dutch but a separate language. Of course as far as I have heard Sander Afrikaans was developed as a result of communciating with the Native peoples of South Africa but the same could be argued for not only the American colonies but also other British colonies. But what made Afrikaans a separate and American English still considered a dialect?
Could it be as a result of different approach of colonisation (British vs the Dutch) ? Or an early form of nationalist thinking of the Dutch in Early South Africa?
It reminds me of the British colonies in the Americas when there wasn't a 'standard' for the English system of spelling for both the UK and it's colonies.
What amazes me that Afrikaans took a further step and developed to an extent where Afrikaans is considered not a dialect of Dutch but a separate language. Of course as far as I have heard Sander Afrikaans was developed as a result of communciating with the Native peoples of South Africa but the same could be argued for not only the American colonies but also other British colonies. But what made Afrikaans a separate and American English still considered a dialect?
Could it be as a result of different approach of colonisation (British vs the Dutch) ? Or an early form of nationalist thinking of the Dutch in Early South Africa?
<Belgians can say all they want, it's a dialect.>
Doesn't even deserve the title of 'dialect' and certainly not considered a separate language. It's simply an accent of Dutch inheriting local regional slang.
Doesn't even deserve the title of 'dialect' and certainly not considered a separate language. It's simply an accent of Dutch inheriting local regional slang.
««Here in Brazil we are taught [in schools] ''VÓS SOIS'' and not VOCÊS SÃO.
sou, és, é, somos, sois, são
VOCÊS is not a pronoun.»»
In Portugal people are also taught "vós sois" when conjugating the present tense. And it is less used like Joey said.
Of course "VOCÊS SÃO" is used in Brazil too. Você is a contraction of "vossa mercê" and a pronoun.
In Portugal you can also hear "vosmecê" "vossemecê" but by old people in the countryside.
sou, és, é, somos, sois, são
VOCÊS is not a pronoun.»»
In Portugal people are also taught "vós sois" when conjugating the present tense. And it is less used like Joey said.
Of course "VOCÊS SÃO" is used in Brazil too. Você is a contraction of "vossa mercê" and a pronoun.
In Portugal you can also hear "vosmecê" "vossemecê" but by old people in the countryside.
>><Belgians can say all they want, it's a dialect.>
Doesn't even deserve the title of 'dialect' and certainly not considered a separate language. It's simply an accent of Dutch inheriting local regional slang. <<
One matter is also that, in many ways, ABN is based more off dialects of Dutch spoken in Belgium, specifically in Brabant, than those spoken in areas of the Netherlands such as Holland. In particular, ABN does not at all reflect the dialects (historically) spoken in Holland, especially in the case of those with Frisian substratum influence. Yes, there are some features thought of as "Belgian" today which differ from present-day ABN, such as the pronuciation of what are ABN /G/ and /v\/, but even still, ABN is based much more off of Brabantic dialects than, say, Hollandic dialects.
Doesn't even deserve the title of 'dialect' and certainly not considered a separate language. It's simply an accent of Dutch inheriting local regional slang. <<
One matter is also that, in many ways, ABN is based more off dialects of Dutch spoken in Belgium, specifically in Brabant, than those spoken in areas of the Netherlands such as Holland. In particular, ABN does not at all reflect the dialects (historically) spoken in Holland, especially in the case of those with Frisian substratum influence. Yes, there are some features thought of as "Belgian" today which differ from present-day ABN, such as the pronuciation of what are ABN /G/ and /v\/, but even still, ABN is based much more off of Brabantic dialects than, say, Hollandic dialects.
Very roughly speaking, AN uses Brabantic dialects for writing and Hollandic for pronounciation.
Nunca escutei 'Vos sois' em Portugal. Deve estar nos livros Brasileiros
só para mostrar que algum dia houve, alias as crianças Portugueses tambem aprendem isto mas ninguem mais usa.
To my mind there are similarities between the changes from the mother languages Dutch and Afrikaans,
The similarity is that babies and little children were handed over to slaves to look after them as nannies/babas.
These slaves had hardly learned to speak the languages of their masters properly but the kids learned from them.
The reason Afrikaans diverted so much and became so simple , gramatically, is that the boers, farmers, were cut off from Dutch civilization, and probaly couldn't care less while the Portuguese establishment was very much present in Brazil and uptil the early 20th century Brazilians were sent to Portugal to study and to speak proper Portuguese was a matter of status.
só para mostrar que algum dia houve, alias as crianças Portugueses tambem aprendem isto mas ninguem mais usa.
To my mind there are similarities between the changes from the mother languages Dutch and Afrikaans,
The similarity is that babies and little children were handed over to slaves to look after them as nannies/babas.
These slaves had hardly learned to speak the languages of their masters properly but the kids learned from them.
The reason Afrikaans diverted so much and became so simple , gramatically, is that the boers, farmers, were cut off from Dutch civilization, and probaly couldn't care less while the Portuguese establishment was very much present in Brazil and uptil the early 20th century Brazilians were sent to Portugal to study and to speak proper Portuguese was a matter of status.