How does Afrikaans grammar compare to English grammar
««Nunca escutei 'Vos sois' em Portugal. Deve estar nos livros Brasileiros »»
Não, está nos livros e gramáticas Portuguesas também. Se vires o dicionário online da Priberam , na parte da gramática,`´é como está conjugado: "vós sois". Embora as pessoas não usem mais acho que os padres aindam falam assim na missa.
>>Very roughly speaking, AN uses Brabantic dialects for writing and Hollandic for pronounciation.<<
So things such as a complete lack of voiced fricatives are considered to be part of AN? I thought AN still had things like [G] for standard /G/, rather than things like [x], for starters...
An is well known for its clear /x/ rather than the softer southern variant.
Comming back on earlier statement; this might be better:
"It's written Brabantic, pronounced by someone who's dialect is Hollandic" this also goes for standard Dutch. Minor note; AN uses the northern hollandic pronounciation of SD, which is extremely "clear".
Sim Gringo, foi o que eu disse:
alias as crianças Portugueses tambem aprendem isto mas ninguem mais usa. ( Está bem: pode ser que os padres ainda usam. Pelo jeito não escutas um sermão tanto tempo quanto eu , rss).
That's the thing - I always read of [x] in such positions just being a feature of Hollandic dialects, with AN proper itself having [G] for such. Likewise, if I recall correctly, AN proper has [v] and [z] as well, rather than having no voiced fricatives as if it were truly like how you describe it. As for AN having [x], I would guess that such is more how AN is spoken by people whose speech is influenced by Hollandic dialects to some extent or another rather than what AN itself formally is.
Jo
(Nunca escutei 'Vos sois' em Portugal. Deve estar nos livros Brasileiros
só para mostrar que algum dia houve, alias as crianças Portugueses tambem aprendem isto mas ninguem mais usa.
To my mind there are similarities between the changes from the mother languages Dutch and Afrikaans,
The similarity is that babies and little children were handed over to slaves to look after them as nannies/babas.
These slaves had hardly learned to speak the languages of their masters properly but the kids learned from them.
The reason Afrikaans diverted so much and became so simple , gramatically, is that the boers, farmers, were cut off from Dutch civilization, and probaly couldn't care less while the Portuguese establishment was very much present in Brazil and uptil the early 20th century Brazilians were sent to Portugal to study and to speak proper Portuguese was a matter of status.)
I have written before there is no comparison between these two situations. The slaves that you are talking about in Brazil are African. The slaves that South Africa had were from India and Malasia and to a lesser extent other partes of Africa. South Africa did not produce slaves. This means even if this was true that would mean they would be in contact with a indoeuropean language. The cut of that you are talking about was not willed by the then 'Hollanders' but imposed by the English. Still to this day the Afrikaans fell a fellowship to the Dutch, but it is very clear Afrikaans are not Dutch.
Afrikaans follows the clear guidelines of a Germanic language, the alphabet
is pronounced in the same way Dutch is. Even though it has German, Portuguese, French, Malasian, African and a very strong English influance.
That is why Dutch uses 'je' (informal) and 'u' (formal) but Afrikaans only has 'jy' (formal/informal) which means you.
Afrikaans uses plurals but Brasil Portuguese dosen't.
It has been pointed out in other threads one of the big barriers between Br Portuguese and Pr Portuguese is phonetics well with Dutch and Afrikaans it isn't. It's the languages themselfs that are different.
Se Africans e Holandes estavão numa tabela em lados opostos, a relação de Portuguese de Portugal e de Portuguese do Brasil seria como o Portugese de Lisboa e do Porto ou de São Paulo e de Rio de Janeiro como podem vêr muito proximo. A diferença de Africanse e Holandes é muito maior.
Kom nou man as jy Afrikaans ken moet jy jouself uitdruk.
«A diferença de Africanse e Holandes é muito maior. »
Foi o que eu disse.
Die kaffer he altijd in die huise van die blankes gewerk.
Dit was nie die Indier of die Maleier nie.
Jo
In the first instance that is a racist remark.
Secondly it's untrue.
Waneer ek het gesê dat as jy Afrikaans ken en jy jouself moet uitdruk het ek nie gesê dat jy moet kak praat.
Shame on you Jo, shame!!!!!
Hi Joey! ;)
Are you Afrikaans?
No Luso-South African but had HG Afrikaans in school.
Portuguese and South African
I was impressed BTW by your knowledge about the development of Afrikaans. ;)