The decline of French

Adolf   Sat Jun 23, 2007 10:13 pm GMT
Yes, because it is a smaller country, but the percentage is the same.
Guest   Sat Jun 23, 2007 10:24 pm GMT
Twenty percent are functionally illiterate according to your source. A lot of prisoners have this problem, so maybe people should work harder at helping incarcerated people to read. I wonder what percent of the incarcerated pop. are immigrants...hmmm.

To Guest: I agree we have a lot of immigrants. At least they have the desire to improve their lives. The problem is the educational system in Mexico, imo. I don't know about Guatemala and other countries, but a lot of kids drop out of school in first grade in Mexico. If they come here semi-literate in Spanish, it will be a bit of a task to take them to literacy in English.

I feel sorry for them and I'm glad to help them if they follow the laws of this country. However, sometimes I see them shoplifting here, or (I saw this recently) leaving a young child alone in the car.
Adolf   Sat Jun 23, 2007 10:27 pm GMT
Hispanics don't constitute the 20% of the US population, also not all of them are functional illiterate, I've met native americans who are functional illiterate here in Antimoon.
Guest   Sat Jun 23, 2007 10:33 pm GMT
Yes, somewhere around 75% of the prison population has dropped out of high school.

Hispanic immigrants tend to be very careless with their actions in the United States. In a lot of cases, they have a one-track mind. Really different cultural standards than we have here.
Ad   Thu Jun 28, 2007 8:36 am GMT
According to genetic studies, spanish people descent mainly from Phaleolitic populations ,that is, true native spaniards. Later invasions did alter considerably the genetic stock of Spanish people.
Guest   Thu Jun 28, 2007 11:36 am GMT
<< K. T.: I'm not sure that I understand the sentiment. If you have people from the Maghreb migrating to Spain, won't Arabic or Berber arrive as well? Of course some people from the Maghreb speak French, but not everyone speaks French well-it's mixec in. JMO. >>

Not some but many of the Maghrebians speak the French langauge well. Don't pretenfd that you're knowleageable.

And before you speak at me this way, let me tell you that this is just a reaction to the messages by your fellow hispanic fantatics in this thread and other threads as well to post messages against the French, the Americans, the Russians. All they they wish is that French would become extinct.

Now why is it that I don't read messages coming from you reacting to what they posted? Like "French is declining in Africa", "France will become the center of the Islamic world", "French is dead in Canada, Belgium, Switzerland, and Africa", "The Hispanics will take over the US". It seems that your hypocrite, K.T.

You're happy when a fellow hispanic fanatics of yours post non-sense messages attacking other people but it makes you furious when others posted messages directed agains the Spanish culture and language. The hell!

And id you know me please whoever you are I don't know you it looks like you know me based on the messages that you posted. Shit!
Adolfo   Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:30 pm GMT
French is in decline, here are the proofs:


(The figures below (in millions) include the smallest and the largest estimations by experts, with a distinction between the number of first language speakers and the total including second language users:)



Chinese (Mandarin) – 800 to 1,100 first language speakers in all countries; 856 to 1,120 - including second language users


English – 315 to 400 first language speakers in all countries; 455 to 508 - including second language users


Spanish - 266 to 400 first language speakers in all countries; 320 to 472 – including second language users


Hindi – 250 to 385 first language speakers in all countries; 333 to 487 - including second language users


Arabic – 180 to 210 first language speakers in all countries; 207 to 260 - including second language users


Bangla (Bengali) – 180 to 190 first language speakers in all countries; 189 to 250 -including second language users


Russian – 160 to 180 first language speakers in all countries; 277 to 320 - including second language users


Portuguese – 160 to 180 first language speakers in all countries; 188 to 200 - including second language users


Japanese – 120 to 125 first language speakers in all countries; 120 to 133 - including second language users


German – 98 to 100 first language speakers in all countries; 107 to 125 - including second language users


French - 72 to 90 first languages speakers in all countries; 125 to 265 - including second language users
Guest   Thu Jun 28, 2007 1:26 pm GMT
How can you conclude a language is on the decline without comparing its current ranking with earlier rankings?
Adam   Thu Jun 28, 2007 1:37 pm GMT
French IS in decline.....


Mourning the decline of French

Technorati Tags: jacques chirac, marcel berlins, french language, european union


In today's Guardian, Marcel Berlins approves of Jacques Chirac's walk-out from the opening session of the EU spring summit last week, prompted by a speech in English by the French leader of the EU employers' organisation. Ernest-Antoine Sellière did so because English is "the language of business". Berlins notes that he could have added "of international trade, the internet, pop music, the tourist industry and Hollywood":

French cannot compete. All it has in its favour is that it is the most beautiful language in the world, the most elegant, expressive and mellifluous. It's also the pre-eminent language of culture. But that's irrelevant if all you want is to do a deal.

What Chirac was concerned about, apparently, was that as French becomes less important on the international stage, it infiltrates and degrades French as well, which has been changing very rapidly of late, changes increasingly spearheaded by the younger generation, an example being "the language of the banlieue (slum/suburb), much in evidence last November during the riots of the disadvantaged". Of course, the language of the French slums is likely to be different from middle-class French, because they are populated by large numbers of Arabs and Africans. And as for the preponderance of English popular culture, dreck is dreck in anyone's language, but if the French have not produced a culture they consider worth keeping in the last forty years or so, you can hardly blame their youth for looking elsewhere.

Actually the real reasons French is on the decline is simply that it failed to colonise enough of the right places in the 18th and 19th centuries, and because Europe is enlarging. The British got underpopulated areas like Australia, New Zealand, Canada, and (for a while) America. It also colonised most of India and large parts of Africa. Today, English is the lingua franca in many of these places - still used officially in India and Pakistan (its replacement with Hindi being resisted by, among others, the Tamils). France first tried to grab its neighbours' countries, and got trounced. It later got north Africa (which it misruled dreadfully), the desert and semi-desert of the west African interior, Haiti, Syria, Lebanon, Québec, and a few pockets of India - mostly places where a major international language was already spoken or widely understood: Arabic.

French is still an official language in many of these places, the internationally known names of several cities in Algeria, for example, being French rather than Arabic or any other local language. Read any English guidebook of Morocco, and you will find streets being named in French, rather than Arabic or in English translations.

As for the decline of French in Europe, this was bound to happen as French ceased to be the biggest single language spoken in the EU. In the Cold War days France was the biggest country in the EU by far, and French is also spoken in Belgium, Luxembourg and parts of Italy. Italian has similar Latin roots to French, while English and German have substantial amounts of French or otherwise Latin-based vocabulary, and French is generally the first foreign language British children learn. This is not the case any longer, with the arrival of large populations of Slavs whose language has nowhere near this level of French influence, and with French being only one of four major Latin languages. Probably the EU's biggest single language is German, with eastern Germany and Austria now in the union (with speakers in France, Poland, Belgium and Italy), but because of the problems you might have in getting the Poles and Czechs to accept German as the language of European business, it's not really a viable proposition.

I find it rather amusing that Berlins thinks French culture is particularly threatened, with fewer than 100 million speaking the language worldwide - compare this with fewer than half that number speaking Polish and with other European languages with fewer than 10 million - worldwide, not just at home. What do the Lithuanians do when speaking at these summits - do they never speak any language except Lithuanian? The only reason Chirac walked out in a huff is because in bygone days, he would have been able to go to other EU countries and expect to hear French. And I'm not sure the Italians would agree that French is "the most beautiful language in the world, the most elegant, expressive and mellifluous".


http://www.blogistan.co.uk/blog/mt.php/2006/03/29/mourning_the_decline_of_french
Adam   Thu Jun 28, 2007 1:39 pm GMT
"French cannot compete. All it has in its favour is that it is the most beautiful language in the world, the most elegant, expressive and mellifluous. It's also the pre-eminent language of culture. But that's irrelevant if all you want is to do a deal. "

I forgot to put this part in inverted commas so you know that the writer of the article was quoting Marcel Berlins.
Guest   Thu Jun 28, 2007 4:52 pm GMT
French is not in decline, that's pure non-sense.

And Adam, you're a fuckin' limey, not a spic, so get off their balls.



FRENCH ALIVE AND WELL:

GLOBAL STATUS

French is second only to English for the number of countries where it has official status – 33 as opposed to 45. And the number of countries that are members of the Francophonie is equal that of the Commonwealth, at 53.

French is also the only language, with English, that is taught in every country of the world, with 100 million students and 2 million teachers – 20 % of whom outside of francophone countries.

The number of French speakers has tripled since 1945 largely since most former French and Belgian colonies kept French as their language of government, diplomacy, education and science after decolonization.

French is still a working language of the UN, the EU and dozens of international organizations including the International Red Cross committee, Doctors without Borders, and the International Labour Organization. Francophone countries form an important bloc in the UN, the EU, the African Union and the Arab League.

Two G-8 countries (France and Canada) and six European countries (France, Belgium, Switzerland, Romania, Luxemburg, Monaco) are fully or partly French-speaking.

France is the most visited country in the world with 75 million tourists every year.

French-speaking scientists and technicians invented the hot air balloon, cinema, radial tires, smart cards, HD TV, the snowmobile, the saxophone, Velcro and more.

LANGUAGE

About a third to a half of basic English words come from French, including pedigree, surf, view, strive, challenge, pride, staunch, mayday and war.

The French Academy, created in 1635, was the first body ever to rule over a language. Since then, most of the world’s main languages have had a similar type of institution and most countries of the world rule over proper language rules, including all Spanish-speaking, Scandinavian, German-speaking, Arabic-speaking countries. English-speaking countries are the only exception.

The origin of French language purism, including the French Academy, can all be traced back to the influence of a single poet, François de Malherbe.

France was the first country to conduct a language survey, in 1790. The results showed that, at the time of the French Revolution, 75% of French citizens did not speak French as a mother tongue.

French has more than a million words and 5000 new ones are created every year.

Quebec Bank of Terminology receives 50 million information requests per year, 25 times more than the French Academy.

IN CANADA

Canada is one of the few countries that uses the Common Law in French, and Quebec’s language protection measures have been a model for policy in Spain, France, Brazil, and 33 US States.

In Canada, 300 000 children are enrolled in French immersion programs.

Half a million native French speakers live in Ontario and their flag, the Franco-Ontarian flag, is one of Ontario’s seven official emblems.

The Acadians had an official flag and anthem a century before Canada. New Brunswick was the first Canadian province to declare itself officially bilingual and remains the only one.

Until 1927, most of Canada’s measures for language protection were designed either to protect English against the influence of French or to assimilate French Canadians and Acadians.

There are eight million francophones living in North America, and most are descendents of only 10 000 original French colonists.

IN AMERICA

In the United States, French is the number four native language and the second most taught second language after Spanish.

Quebec is the United States’ 8th trading partner, and half a million Americans work for French companies.

Most of the early legendary figures of the American frontier in the early 19th century were French Canadians born in the St. Lawrence valley. They guided Lewis and Clark, colonized New Mexico and discovered gold in California.

The main centers of French in the United States are New England, Louisiana, California and Florida.
Adam   Thu Jun 28, 2007 7:25 pm GMT
Why French teachers have the blues

The French language is in dramatic decline around the world, including in its traditional foreign heartlands, according to international language teachers recently gathered in Paris. François Buglet reports.




French is disappearing from European classrooms in favour of English
The predominance of English on the internet, the relative ease of learning basic English and the perception that English is "cooler" - thanks in large part to popular music and films - means French is becoming ever more restricted to older generations and the upper classes of many countries where it used to be the second language of choice in schools.

That was the consensus among language teachers from across the globe who gathered in Paris in early February for the Expolangues trade fair, dedicated to language teaching, learning and translating.

[The site fittingly illustrates Francophony's predicament. Although sponsored by the French and held in Paris the site for this polyglot fair comes in only two flavors, French, bien sûr -- and English.]

"Some among us see a sort of victory in this. But personally, I side with a campaign in the British press against our deficit in learning languages," said Julie Squires, a Briton who teaches French at Oxford House College.

In Britain, she said, much of the problem lies with a recent government decision to make a second language optional for pupils aged 14 years and older.

Twenty years ago everybody spoke French in Spain but in Burgos now French teachers outnumber students!

She pointed to a study which showed that, across British schools, 72 percent registered a decline in the number of students learning French. German studies declined in 70 percent of the schools, while Spanish declined by just 44 percent.

A teacher from Germany's Goethe-Institut, Christina Trojan, said "French remains a beautiful language much appreciated by the upper class" but it was losing ground in curricula, even in areas near the French-German border.

French was still holding up compared to Italian and Spanish, but that may gradually change.

"Given the difficulty of the grammar and spelling, many prefer not to take up French," she said.

Only Japanese teachers talked of the future of French with enthusiasm
A teacher from the Spanish town of Burgos, Julia Martinez, said most of her colleagues agreed that French was "in free fall".

"Twenty years ago, everybody spoke French in Spain. Today, in Burgos, there are more French teachers than students!"

A teacher from Portugal, Teresa Santos, said in her country 70 percent of Portuguese students preferred to take English courses, compared to just 10 percent for French.

"English is magnifique!" a teacher of Ancient Greek at the Aristotle University in Thessalonika, Thalia Stephanidou, said. "Even in poorer neighbourhoods, that language - which replaced French right after the second world war - is taught, even to old people," she said.

There's only one French school in Greece, and that's reserved for the elite
"My grandmother spoke French, my father too. Today though, there is only one French school in Greece, and that's reserved for the elite," she said.

Even in the German-speaking part of Switzerland, English has crowded French out of the classroom, despite French being one of the country's official languages.

In Russia, where speaking French was once a prized talent among the tsars, French is trailing "far behind English" in Moscow and Saint Petersburg schools, Mascha Sveshnikova, of the Russian Cultural Centre, said.

David Fein, the head of the Alliance Française in the US city of San Diego, said French studies was part of the collateral damage suffered in the transatlantic fall-out resulting from the US decision to invade Iraq, but now it looked as though pupils were slowly returning.

Only two Japanese teachers talked of the future of French with enthusiasm, with one of them saying that the luxurious images the language conjured up were its best advertisement.

"Only two Japanese teachers talked of the future of French with enthusiasm, with one of them saying that the luxurious images the language conjured up were its best advertisement.

French, she said, evoked "dreams, fashion, history, cooking and wine."

February 2005

© AFP

http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?channel_id=4&story_id=16980
Guest   Thu Jun 28, 2007 9:44 pm GMT
It is obvious a slight decline of French because of the predominance of English in internet, music, business, films or technology. A fast comparison between English and French is clear. The winner is English.

French is the less spoken of international languages and it is desappearing in classrooms around the world (according to the last article). The question is if there will be a slight decline or a free fall of French. I don´t know.

French Government waste a lot of money promoting French language and that doesn´t give results. In my opinion, French Government will throw in the towel in the near future, and there will be a free fall of French.
Guest   Thu Jun 28, 2007 10:02 pm GMT
Yes, it's clear, English is the big dog around the world. Thank you for confirming what all of us have known for years. As an American, I'm glad that my mother tongue is the most powerful language.

Anyways, the discussion is about French as an international language, and there is no denying this fact. It's still more international than Spanish, Chinese, Hindu, and Arabic. Those are fine languages, indeed, but they are not as widespread or as learned as second languages as French is. There is no room for growth at the top, because English is boxing all of those languages out.
ANYONE CAN COPY AND PASTE   Thu Jun 28, 2007 10:04 pm GMT
French is a great foreign language to learn

There are all kinds of reasons to learn a foreign language in general, and French in particular.



Why learn French?

If you are a native English speaker, one of the best reasons to learn French is to help you understand your own language. Although English is a Germanic language, French has had an enormous impact on it - learn more. In fact, French is the largest donor of foreign words in English. Unless your English vocabulary is much higher than average, learning French will greatly increase the number of English words you know.

French is spoken as a native language in more than two dozen countries on five continents - learn more. Depending on your sources, French is either the 11th (2) or the 13th (3) most common native language in the world, with 72-79 million native speakers and another 190 million secondary speakers (3).

French is the second most commonly taught second language in the world (after English), making it a real possibility that speaking French will come in handy practically anywhere you travel.


French in business

In 2003, the United States was France's leading investor, accounting for 25% of the new jobs created in France from foreign investment. There are 2,400 US companies in France generating 240,000 jobs. (4) American companies with offices in France include IBM, Microsoft, Mattel, Dow Chemical, SaraLee, Ford, Coca-Cola, AT&T, Motorola, Johnson & Johnson, Ford, and Hewlett Packard.

France is the second leading investor in the United States: more than 3,000 French companies have subsidiaries in the US and generate some 700,000 jobs, including Mack Trucks, Zenith, RCA-Thomson, Bic, and Dannon.


French in the United States

French is the 3rd most frequently spoken non-English language in US homes (5) and the second most commonly taught foreign language in the United States (after Spanish). (6)


French in the world

French is an official working language in dozens of international organizations, including the United Nations, International Olympic Committee, and International Red Cross.

French is the lingua franca of culture, including art, cuisine, dance, and fashion. France has won more Nobel Prizes for literature than any other country in the world and is one of the top producers of international films.

French is the second most frequently used language on the internet.

French is ranked the 2nd most influential language in the world. (3)