glottal stop

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wasi   Sun Aug 05, 2007 6:14 am GMT
What exactly is the glottal stop? What is the "sound" that native speaker
make when pronouncing words like continent, Clinton,enter etc.,and again why do they not use it in some of the words like internet (and some others which i am sorry to have forgotten) ?Can anybody tell me the exact position of the articulators for the glattal stop?
Skippy   Sun Aug 05, 2007 3:10 pm GMT
What's your native language? A lot of languages have it.
Josh Lalonde   Sun Aug 05, 2007 9:26 pm GMT
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glotal_stop
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glottalization
wasi   Tue Aug 07, 2007 4:46 am GMT
My native language is Pashto which i do not think you have ever heard about. It is roughly similar to Urdu (the national language of Pakistan).
What I dont understand is the position of articulators for the glottal stop, especially the tongue when we replace the voiced "t" with a stop.
Josh Lalonde   Tue Aug 07, 2007 4:51 am GMT
According to Wikipedia, Pashto does have a glottal stop. From what I can tell here: http://www.omniglot.com/writing/pashto.htm , it is represented by the letter ayn.
wasi   Tue Aug 07, 2007 12:00 pm GMT
Well, my lips will not press together if I use the Pashto "ayn" sound for the glottal stop in words like "cup", "trip", "shrimp" etc. where I think the lips press for a moment. what is the difference?
Josh Lalonde   Tue Aug 07, 2007 4:48 pm GMT
<<Well, my lips will not press together if I use the Pashto "ayn" sound for the glottal stop in words like "cup", "trip", "shrimp" etc. where I think the lips press for a moment. what is the difference?>>

Those words don't have a glottal stop in most varieties of English. They are pronounced [kVp] [tr\Ip] and [Sr\Imp] in both RP and General American. (Using this transcription system: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-SAMPA ) The last sound of each of these words is the same as the 'p' in 'spill'. The glottal stop generally occurs in English as a realisation of /t/ before other consonants or word-finally. There is no movement of the lips to articulate a glottal stop.
Liz   Tue Aug 07, 2007 7:12 pm GMT
<<Those words don't have a glottal stop in most varieties of English. They are pronounced [kVp] [tr\Ip] and [Sr\Imp] in both RP and General American.>>

Glottal reinforcement is possible in RP, so [kV?p] [tr\I?p].
wasi   Tue Aug 07, 2007 7:35 pm GMT
So where is the glottal stop used then?
wasi   Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:07 pm GMT
Their is a glottal stop at the end of those words in standard NAE, so how do I pronounce it if i have to?
Josh Lalonde   Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:27 am GMT
<<Glottal reinforcement is possible in RP, so [kV?p] [tr\I?p].>>

Yes, but I'm trying to keep this as simple as possible.

<<Their is a glottal stop at the end of those words in standard NAE, so how do I pronounce it if i have to?>>

The glottal stop in this words is optional. Many speakers, maybe even most, don't ever use it, while others use it variably. It's not something I would worry about; you can use [p] for all those words and sound perfectly normal.
Guest   Wed Aug 08, 2007 8:37 am GMT
I would try not to use glottal stops, it sounds common and uneducated.
Travis   Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:55 pm GMT
>><<Their is a glottal stop at the end of those words in standard NAE, so how do I pronounce it if i have to?>>

The glottal stop in this words is optional. Many speakers, maybe even most, don't ever use it, while others use it variably. It's not something I would worry about; you can use [p] for all those words and sound perfectly normal.<<

Depends. At least here, such glottal reinforcement is used to distinguish fortis obstruents and devoiced lenis obstruents after vowels. Especially in cases where the vowel length is not clearly short or long, whether glottal reinforcement is present will likely determine whether that being heard is perceived as fortis or devoiced lenis.
Travis   Wed Aug 08, 2007 2:44 pm GMT
>>I would try not to use glottal stops, it sounds common and uneducated.<<

Just what do you mean by "common and uneducated" here? For starters, the use of [?] for /t/ before /@n/ is standard in North American English, and the preglottalization of fortis plosives after vowels is found throughout English in general, including in General American and RP. It would be strange if you lacked the former, if you are an NAE-speaker (which I doubt), and it would be even stranger if you lacked the latter, if you are any sort of native English-speaker.

Similarly, I have never heard anyone have such a view of the realization of /t/ as [?] before another consonant (whether in the same or in another word) or at the end of an utterance, which is common in North American English dialects. You must just be echoing many popular views of the use of [?] for intervocalic /t/ in English English dialects, without any real knowledge of the use of [?] in English dialects overall (aside from such popular views meaning absolutely nothing from a linguistic standpoint).
Liz   Wed Aug 08, 2007 3:26 pm GMT
Travis, that's a common view with older U-RP speakers. Besides, I think he must be talking about glottal replacement, not preglottalisation.
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