Why there is not a second world important language?

Xie   Mon Nov 19, 2007 10:41 am GMT
>>Nothing against China or Chinese. I just think some people over-hype it just because it's a huge country. There is a lot more to it than that.
Ok, done with my rant. Thanks.

True. I'm kinda irritated when so many Westerners (and a lot of them being American, as per my own sample size) and people from the West who aren't of European descent alike are saying how important Chinese has been becoming......for its BUSINESS!

No, I'm not going to help learners who regard this as the most important or even the only factor of learning Chinese. At least, they must have a lot of difficulty trying to convince Chinese customers to buy their products and enjoy their services. There have been opinions expressing the nature of Chinese learning, one prominent feature being that "many foreigners wouldn't bother to learn the traditional Hanzi, leading to further imbalance of the use of the 2 different scripts among Chinese speakers and learners alike". As a native user of this, for me, orthodox script, I would be rather disappointed.

I'm still looking for competent learners who could conquer my English, talk to me wholly in Chinese, and don't learn Chinese primarily for such, IMO, all-too practical purposes. It must be one of the reasons, of course (or else it would actually be unrealistic), but I could easily foresee the difficulties and, possibly, utter frustration that too practical-minded learners could suffer from.
Guest   Mon Nov 19, 2007 10:47 am GMT
Well, the grand majority of language learners just learn for practical purposes. English is a good example.
Xie   Mon Nov 19, 2007 10:56 am GMT
English may be very controversial, however. English is exactly what led me to post here and discover a lot of "secrets" about language learning elsewhere. If I didn't know English, I couldn't even handle my PC.
Guest   Mon Nov 19, 2007 11:45 am GMT
Careful, think before you post or study history. Spain, Portugal, France, and other European countries to lesser extents all hade colonial empires. You could even say the same for the Muslim Empire(s) that spread Arabic along with it.

Yes, England set the stage for English, but the status of the language today is largely due to the influence of the U.S., a former colony of England no less. It's interesting how that all turned out.


you have to study history ot read well before to post. I've never said England was the SOLE country which made colonial empires.
The spreading of Spanish, French etc. is due to the same reasons.
Muslims have never had an "empire" in the western sense and it's a different thing.
The influence of US is 50 years old and it has probably finished yet.
Anyway Us made colonialism in different way and with a different name, but the core of the matter is pretty the same. And in similar ways. The pupil probably did best of the master, they learned well how to trample on everybody.
The spread of English is due to that. First England and then US (a former colony of England): all make sense
Guest   Mon Nov 19, 2007 12:17 pm GMT
But the colonial empire of Great Britain was the biggest ever existed. This is why English is the most spread language nowadays.
Tamu   Mon Nov 19, 2007 12:42 pm GMT
<< Perhaps, English, Spanish and French a little more important. Spanish and French are really important, status of world languages worldwide, and the gap between English and Spanish or French is not so big as you can think. >>

English is way more important than French or Spanish.

French is basically useless in North and South America except Quebec.
In Asia and Australia it is also practically useless.
Even in Europe today you won't get far with French anymore.
The francophone Africans often can speak English, but not the other way around.

Spanish can be useful in Latin America, Spain, and in Europe it is pretty popular.
In the rest of the world it is useless, except perhaps Morocco and Equatorial Guinea.


Last week I had a meeting with an Ethiopian, Taiwanese, three Indonesians, a Mexican, a Spaniard, two Germans, and a Latvian.
As a matter of course we used English to communicate with each other.
Guest   Mon Nov 19, 2007 12:46 pm GMT
Spanish is useful in Ceuta, Melilla, Canary Islands, Equatorial Guinea, Occidental Sahara and Northern Morocco.
In Asia about 6 million people speak Spanish and it will be recognized as the official language of Philippines in January, 2008. There is also an important Spanish speaking community in Australia (the name itself of this country is Spanish)
Guest2   Mon Nov 19, 2007 12:59 pm GMT
You are right...but partially.

For example, if you have a meeting with a Mexican, a Spaniard, a Cuban, an Argentinian, a Moroccan, a Equatorial Guinean and a Colombian, even an American, or a French the language to communicate will be Spanish, of course. If the American or you do not speak Spanish YOU and the American will have a problem

If the meeting is with a French, a Belgian, a Canadian, a Swiss, a Moroccan, a Senegalese, an Algerian, a Tunisian, a Congolese, a Cameroonese, and a Gabonese, even an American or a Spaniard, the language will be French, of course. If the American or you do not speak French YOU and the American will have a problem


The most spoken language is CHINESE, not English. In the Americas, the most spoken language is SPANISH, not English. In Africa, FRENCH, and not English is the most spoken or at least the most spread language, from Morocco to Madagascar, and not English.


Finally, in almost all the World Organizations, English, SPANISH AND FRENCH are official, not only English. Arabic, Chinese and Russian are official in a lot of them too, like UNO, UNESCO, UNICEF, FAO, etc.
Tamu   Mon Nov 19, 2007 1:39 pm GMT
You're right.

I'm just saying that the importance of English as DE FACTO world language is unprecedented.

Just look at the most popular foreign language among the youth all over the world (beside English-speakers, of course), including in France and Spain.

I'm not saying that French or Spanish are worse. I personally find French to be one of the most beautiful languages I know. And I'm learning Spanish right now. But the fact that English has de facto taken such an incomparably important position in the world today is a simple reality, whether one likes it or not.

There were times where French or Spanish was unprecedentedly THE world language, but not today. And who knows, maybe in 200 years English won't be the most important language anymore. But as for today, you just need to look around and see, and try not to be oblivious to the reality.
Guest   Mon Nov 19, 2007 1:46 pm GMT
<< Spanish is useful in Ceuta, Melilla, Canary Islands, Equatorial Guinea, Occidental Sahara and Northern Morocco.

In Asia about 6 million people speak Spanish and it will be recognized as the official language of Philippines in January, 2008. There is also an important Spanish speaking community in Australia (the name itself of this country is Spanish) >>

There's no news that I heard or read that Spanish will become the official language of the Philippines in place of Filipino and English. They're doing all they can to re-introduce Spanish but the Filipinos are not that interested. So even if there are huge amount of money to be spent, still the possibility of bringing back the grandeur of the Spanish language eems so remote.

The name Australia is derived from "Terra Australis" a Latin phrase. "Australia" is also used in Latin, Italian, Portuguese, Catalan, and even English and so it's not Spanish derived word.

So what if there are sizable Spanish speaking community in Australia. The fact is second generation Hispanics there are monolingual in English. Even first generation immigrants tend to speak English more often to their fellow hispanics in Australia.
Guest   Mon Nov 19, 2007 1:47 pm GMT
That is because you are bad informed.
mac   Mon Nov 19, 2007 1:58 pm GMT
Guest2, it sounds like you think English isn't that important. There may be more native Spanish Speakers in the Americas (not by that much), but in the north, English is dominate, then Spanish. While in the south, Spanish and Portugese are dominate.

Also, you forgot to mention that English has many secondary speakers and is by far the most studied language in the world. That's a big deal.

I understand your comparisons about group meetings of different people and languages. Here is one from my personal experience (many times over):
Myself, four people form Latin America, Two from Germany, one from Finland, one from France, two from Turkey, two from Egypt, two from Jordan, one from Moracco.

This is a group of people of whom I often see. Whenever we are together, everyone uses English for the most part. Hell, I speak Spanish and sometimes I have to jokingly tell my friends from Latin America to quit talking to me in English so I can practice my Spanish.
Guest   Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:02 pm GMT
<< French is basically useless in North and South America except Quebec.
In Asia and Australia it is also practically useless.
Even in Europe today you won't get far with French anymore.
The francophone Africans often can speak English, but not the other way around. >>

On the contrary English speaking Africans are more likely to speak French than Francophone Africans. In Nigeria, there is a movement to promote French as the 2nd official language there and French is compulsory not only in secondary school but also in primary schools. French is also compolsory in schools in Ghana, Gambia, Sierra Leone, and even Liberia and South Africa, Angola, Mozambique, Cape Verde. French is widely spoken in Sudan, Kenya, Tanzania, Zambia, and Zimbabwe.

In Cameroon, the official languages are French and English but French predominates. French is widely spoken in Diouala the heartland of Anglophone Cameroon but English is not even understood in Yaounde the capital of Cameroon. Anglophone Cameronese complain that there is too much emphasis put in the French language.
Guest   Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:07 pm GMT
I agree. In Africa lies the strength of the French language nowadays.
Guest   Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:17 pm GMT
Isn't African French difficult to understand between regions? What about the use of native languages in Africa? Aren't they dominate in some of these Francophone countries? I heard the native languages have influenced African French, true?