I think English should be official, but we should still learn Spanish or French (depending on our location) because those are the languages of our neighbours.
California vuelve a ser mexicana, gracias al vodka
No language should be official. People use languages as they need them. Laws should not tell people what language they have to use.
<<think English should be official, but we should still learn Spanish or French (depending on our location) because those are the languages of our neighbours.>>
Of course, because it would be too un-PC if we didn't know our neighbours' languages.
Of course, because it would be too un-PC if we didn't know our neighbours' languages.
So having good diplomatic relations with Canada and Mexico is too PC...
What do diplomatic relations have to do with what ordinary people learn?
It's just my opinion-something I'd suggest for people who come into contact with French and Spanish speakers regularly. Then there's the issue of all those French and Spanish teachers who have to pay their rent and house payments (as one poster recently pointed out on another thread...)
Seriously, French and Spanish are big and useful languages. This is a language forum, did you seriously expect me to encourage people to be monolingual?
Seriously, French and Spanish are big and useful languages. This is a language forum, did you seriously expect me to encourage people to be monolingual?
I totally understand Domine, Skippy and KT.
Bottom line, English has always been the majority language in the US. It wasn't until westward expansion and especially the Mexican cession that Spanish had any real presence in the US. So to say that Spanish has historically always been been spoken (in any significance) in the US is wrong. You can say that Spanish has always been spoken in North America, but this is not the same thing as the US.
Yes, Spanish has had presence in some parts for a long time, but the US as a whole, has always had a majority of English speakers. English speakers were the majority in California by 1850 I believe. I think New Mexico had the largest number of Spanish speakers during the 19th century.
The presence of Spanish will continue to grow in the US, but it will never actually threaten the use of English. I do agree with KT though that it is a good idea to learn Spanish just as I think Spanish speakers should learn English.
Bottom line, English has always been the majority language in the US. It wasn't until westward expansion and especially the Mexican cession that Spanish had any real presence in the US. So to say that Spanish has historically always been been spoken (in any significance) in the US is wrong. You can say that Spanish has always been spoken in North America, but this is not the same thing as the US.
Yes, Spanish has had presence in some parts for a long time, but the US as a whole, has always had a majority of English speakers. English speakers were the majority in California by 1850 I believe. I think New Mexico had the largest number of Spanish speakers during the 19th century.
The presence of Spanish will continue to grow in the US, but it will never actually threaten the use of English. I do agree with KT though that it is a good idea to learn Spanish just as I think Spanish speakers should learn English.
<<No language should be official. People use languages as they need them. Laws should not tell people what language they have to use.>>
With all due respect, I disagree. Think of all the money and time being spent on translating dozens of languages. There has to be one to unite everyone. In the United States, that language is English. No reason to change things now because a few immigrants are too stubborn to assimilate.
And as a personal note, I will never learn Spanish. I simply have no motivation to do so, and I'm fairly certain I'll never really NEED it. As English is the dominant language in my country and is quickly becoming the most dominant language in the world, I'm in good shape considering it's my native tongue. That opens up possibilities for me to learn other languages, and I'm working on French at the moment, which I prefer most out of the Romance languages.
With all due respect, I disagree. Think of all the money and time being spent on translating dozens of languages. There has to be one to unite everyone. In the United States, that language is English. No reason to change things now because a few immigrants are too stubborn to assimilate.
And as a personal note, I will never learn Spanish. I simply have no motivation to do so, and I'm fairly certain I'll never really NEED it. As English is the dominant language in my country and is quickly becoming the most dominant language in the world, I'm in good shape considering it's my native tongue. That opens up possibilities for me to learn other languages, and I'm working on French at the moment, which I prefer most out of the Romance languages.
">Well, we're going to have both issues if we're not careful. And the racial issues stem from the linguistic issues to some extent. Most Americans look down upon Hispanics who come here and make no effort to learn English. They're singled out because of this and it can become a race issue. Furthermore, the overwhelming majority of Americans want English to be the official language of the United States. English is already the official language of several border states with large Hispanic populations, including California, Arizona, and Florida.<"
Not necessarily as Canada's and Mexico's racism is minimal. In Mexico you're just a mestizo and Canada just a Canadian - tolerance is expressed. Of course they're exceptions, however, not to the extreme degree of the U.S. We have Michael Moore to thank for this "Bowling for Columbine" = fear thy neighbor. Whereas the U.S. was the founder of racism via discrimination of other cultures, races and religions ab initio; even though the U.S. Constitution says otherwise as an utopian ideal. Notwithstanding the U.S. Constitution itself (a product of its time) was discrimatory against Natives and Blacks. As a result many Americans do not know what they want or believe in until their government presents it to them as a thoughtless child following daddy for guidance. English is the official language of those respective states because those states fear if left unchecked it could become disastrous due to the high Hispanic population.
For example, of American culture being discriminatory, even many chicanos (mexican-americans) make fun or look down upon Mexican immigrants -whom they call paisas- as the American culture & values has have been instilled in these ignoramus individuals amongst many Americans too to be taught the U.S. is supreme compared to these backward people, or any other for that matter.
It's always been a race issue with preferably Mexicans - to criticize their lack of learning English is keyword for race / culture. So in my view the U.S. is already wetting its feet in another quagmire. Most Americans frown or look down upon anybody whom is not culturally American, hence Americanized. As they have been taught unconsciously to be discriminatory against those whom are different. Examples of this can be viewed in many areas of social acceptability. Mexicans, and other latinos don't learned English because it's not so much a social necessity but cultural necessity that is why many don't integrate; what also helps too is that Mexico is nearby. However, let's be honest, some learn some English to at least be able to communicate.
Not necessarily as Canada's and Mexico's racism is minimal. In Mexico you're just a mestizo and Canada just a Canadian - tolerance is expressed. Of course they're exceptions, however, not to the extreme degree of the U.S. We have Michael Moore to thank for this "Bowling for Columbine" = fear thy neighbor. Whereas the U.S. was the founder of racism via discrimination of other cultures, races and religions ab initio; even though the U.S. Constitution says otherwise as an utopian ideal. Notwithstanding the U.S. Constitution itself (a product of its time) was discrimatory against Natives and Blacks. As a result many Americans do not know what they want or believe in until their government presents it to them as a thoughtless child following daddy for guidance. English is the official language of those respective states because those states fear if left unchecked it could become disastrous due to the high Hispanic population.
For example, of American culture being discriminatory, even many chicanos (mexican-americans) make fun or look down upon Mexican immigrants -whom they call paisas- as the American culture & values has have been instilled in these ignoramus individuals amongst many Americans too to be taught the U.S. is supreme compared to these backward people, or any other for that matter.
It's always been a race issue with preferably Mexicans - to criticize their lack of learning English is keyword for race / culture. So in my view the U.S. is already wetting its feet in another quagmire. Most Americans frown or look down upon anybody whom is not culturally American, hence Americanized. As they have been taught unconsciously to be discriminatory against those whom are different. Examples of this can be viewed in many areas of social acceptability. Mexicans, and other latinos don't learned English because it's not so much a social necessity but cultural necessity that is why many don't integrate; what also helps too is that Mexico is nearby. However, let's be honest, some learn some English to at least be able to communicate.
<< And as a personal note, I will never learn Spanish. I simply have no motivation to do so, and I'm fairly certain I'll never really NEED it. As English is the dominant language in my country and is quickly becoming the most dominant language in the world, I'm in good shape considering it's my native tongue. That opens up possibilities for me to learn other languages, and I'm working on French at the moment, which I prefer most out of the Romance languages. >>
That's true, as a native English speaker we don't really ''need" to learn any other language. So yes, you will never really need Spanish, but the same goes for French as well, especially in the US. As Americans, we have more luxury of being able to chose a language we really "want" to learn vice one we "need" to learn.
I'm interested in French too, but I chose to study Spanish first, not because I need it, but because I have more opportunity to actually use it if I want to. Also, it's important in the business realm, as the US has many Spanish speakers and many of our neighbors are Spanish speaking countries.
As for the immigrant topic; do I think they should learn English? Yes. (Same as if you move to Mexico you should learn Spanish.) Do they all? No, some do some don't. But it doesn't bother me that much because the 2nd generation will most likely speak English. I have quite a few 2nd generation Mexican-American friends and some speak English and Spanish while some speak only English.
That's true, as a native English speaker we don't really ''need" to learn any other language. So yes, you will never really need Spanish, but the same goes for French as well, especially in the US. As Americans, we have more luxury of being able to chose a language we really "want" to learn vice one we "need" to learn.
I'm interested in French too, but I chose to study Spanish first, not because I need it, but because I have more opportunity to actually use it if I want to. Also, it's important in the business realm, as the US has many Spanish speakers and many of our neighbors are Spanish speaking countries.
As for the immigrant topic; do I think they should learn English? Yes. (Same as if you move to Mexico you should learn Spanish.) Do they all? No, some do some don't. But it doesn't bother me that much because the 2nd generation will most likely speak English. I have quite a few 2nd generation Mexican-American friends and some speak English and Spanish while some speak only English.
Is it just me or is Domine just simply anti-American? Is he a Latino in America? If so, then he is an anti-American Mexican-American.
Basically, if someone wants to really be Mexican and preferes Mexican culture over American, then why not move to Mexico?
Is it really so strange that immigrants who don't try or don't want to fit in to their new country (that THEY CHOSE to come to) are looked down upon by the natives?
Basically, if someone wants to really be Mexican and preferes Mexican culture over American, then why not move to Mexico?
Is it really so strange that immigrants who don't try or don't want to fit in to their new country (that THEY CHOSE to come to) are looked down upon by the natives?
">Is it just me or is Domine just simply anti-American? Is he a Latino in America? If so, then he is an anti-American Mexican-American.<"
I'm a realist.
">Basically, if someone wants to really be Mexican and preferes Mexican culture over American, then why not move to Mexico?<"
It's called freedom of choice. Many Mexicans do go back to Mexico as they detest American culture / society from the 1-2 years they reside here - from the ones I've encountered and spoken to.
">Is it really so strange that immigrants who don't try or don't want to fit in to their new country (that THEY CHOSE to come to) are looked down upon by the natives?<"
This is really an American issue. Other countries such as Europe / Middle-East have official other languages side-by-side with the native language. The U.S. is perhaps the only country who discriminazes against high profile languages such as Spanish; thus uses immigration as a political tool to make Americans be discriminatory and so vote against or be against the potential threat in a unconscious manner so that the government can meet its goal.
I'm a realist.
">Basically, if someone wants to really be Mexican and preferes Mexican culture over American, then why not move to Mexico?<"
It's called freedom of choice. Many Mexicans do go back to Mexico as they detest American culture / society from the 1-2 years they reside here - from the ones I've encountered and spoken to.
">Is it really so strange that immigrants who don't try or don't want to fit in to their new country (that THEY CHOSE to come to) are looked down upon by the natives?<"
This is really an American issue. Other countries such as Europe / Middle-East have official other languages side-by-side with the native language. The U.S. is perhaps the only country who discriminazes against high profile languages such as Spanish; thus uses immigration as a political tool to make Americans be discriminatory and so vote against or be against the potential threat in a unconscious manner so that the government can meet its goal.
Often they go to America to have a better life, and sometimes a better life doesn't include learning English. At the end of the day, why should they learn English? What are you going to do about it? Who cares in the end? What does it matter? You don't have to talk to them. You probably wouldn't talk to them regardless of whether they know English.
People have the right to speak the language they want. Wasn't US the land of feedom? Why should an Hispanic learn English if it isn't really his desire?
But i think quite the opposite. They'd like to speak english because this way they think they can get a better life.