Are some Scottish and Irish accents really inintelligeble?

Imma troll   Wed Dec 07, 2005 9:42 pm GMT
<<>>What a nice coment...<<

Why thank you.>>

I was being sarcastic, man
Guy   Wed Dec 07, 2005 10:03 pm GMT
<<Ignores stupid nasty brain-dead moron, laughs at his total and pitiful contemptibility and feeble attempts to use the English language>>

You're no better than 007 character that you so despise by resorting to childish insults like him which is exactly what you supposedly abhor. And my English is fine...so what if I make a couple of typos. I don't have time to proof read my posts I just type'em fast and hope the essence of my message gets through.

>>I was being sarcastic, man<<

Duh..so was I dude.
Damian in Edinburgh   Wed Dec 07, 2005 10:53 pm GMT
!@#$%^&*()_+

How do you pronounce your name? Is it Icelandic? Sorry, but I don't know anything about General Hospital and hve never heard of Duke Lavery so I can't comment on his Scottish accent.

I can comment aplenty about Sean Connery though.....a true son of Edinburgh, born at Fountainbridge, a part of the city not all that far from here. His accent is deffo Edinburgh and (as it says in the link below) the people here are (to quote): "Famed for their soft cultured tones and Brit-Scot traditions". I couldnae have put it better myself! :-)
So our accents are pretty much the same but his voice is a lot deeper.....well he is 75 which gobsmacked me when I checked the site.

Sean Connery is very proud of his home city (as I am) and his heritage and spends a lot of his time here....I passed by him in Rose Street one day....a street parallel with Princes Street and where many places of entertainment are located. He was a lot taller than I expected. Politically he flies the banner for the SNP (Scottish National Party)!


http://www.tiscali.co.uk/entertainment/film/biographies/sean_connery_biog.html
Uriel   Thu Dec 08, 2005 5:25 am GMT
<<Well, people are free to use their language as they feel to when speaking to the natives but, when speaking to non-native, then are supposed to use the RP/GA or else if there's any standard english known to the rest of the out world. >>

Passionate freak, ordinary people generally just speak with ONE accent -- their own. They cannot switch from theirs to an arbitrary "standard one" at will. I cannot impersonate a southerner, a Scot, an Australian, an RP speaker, or any other speaker of another English dialect. I can only "do" my own.
Terry   Thu Dec 08, 2005 5:08 pm GMT
<<What a nice coment... >>

So true Pete. What nasty piece of work he is to say such a horrible thing. And Candy's right, he's a misogynist to the hilt.
Terry   Thu Dec 08, 2005 5:12 pm GMT
<<ordinary people generally just speak with ONE accent -- their own. >>

Yes, Uriel, it's hard to alter your accent but when I speak to someone who's obviously having trouble understanding English, I have the awful tendency to speak louder as if that's going to help. :)
zxcvbnm   Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:46 pm GMT
<<Well, people are free to use their language as they feel to when speaking to the natives but, when speaking to non-native, then are supposed to use the RP/GA or else if there's any standard english known to the rest of the out world. >>

<<Passionate freak, ordinary people generally just speak with ONE accent -- their own. They cannot switch from theirs to an arbitrary "standard one" at will. I cannot impersonate a southerner, a Scot, an Australian, an RP speaker, or any other speaker of another English dialect. I can only "do" my own.>>

Uriel, I don't think that he/she meant that Americans should use RP or that non-RP British speakers should use GA. I think what he/she REALLY meant to say is that British speakers with very broad regional accents should try to "unbroaden" them a wee bit. That does not necessarily involve imitating the Queen herself bit it might involve taking an itsy-bitsy step towards RP.

Likewise, Americans who speak with very thick hillbilly or New York accents (the latter becoming a rarity used only for mafia/comic/blue-collar roles) can modify their speech just a wee bit to sound a little bit more like the adult characters of most mainstream American television shows (like the O.C. for example). They do not necessarily have to sound exactly like Tom Brokaw, Dan Rather, or Peter Jennings.

Incidentally, unlike most UK speakers who CANNOT pull-off RP, even if they tried, most American speakers (even those from the south) CAN speak GAE if they really want to. I've met plenty of young, educated (white) people from the south who use GAE in the NYC metro area. That does not mean that they cannot speak with a southern accent if they wanted to (they probably do so when they're down south in situations where it may be advantageous to do so or when addressing certain people) but outside of that "environment" they use GAE.

I think that most young, educated, white-collar, white people in the US are moving (or have moved to) GAE or at least CAN speak GAE.

Although you may not be able to "impersonate" a Southerner, many Southerners CAN speak GAE because it has become SO ubiquitous in American movies and television and in the media in general. I suspect from your post that you are a GAE speaker. If so, I do not see what you are so upset about since the previous post actually recommends that people speak GAE. Now if you spoke "southern English" that would be different. However, I think what the author of the orinal message is saying is that people in America should speak kind of the way YOU do. In other words, he is saying that your speech is "standard" and "correct" so I don't see what you getting so flustered about.
!@#$%^&*()_+   Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:52 pm GMT
<<How do you pronounce your name? Is it Icelandic?>>

Damian, I was trying to pay you a compliment by suggesting that you use a similar accent to that of sean Connery. ANY remark suggesting that one resembles a famous actor who is also handsome, intelligent, and articulate should be taken as a compliment. I don't see why you had to retort with a snotty remark like "How do you pronounce your name? Is it Icelandic?" The rest of your message was very well-written and extremely enlightening but that one particulat comment was unnecessary.
!@#$%^&*()_+   Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:48 pm GMT
Sorry, I meant Sean Connery (capital S) and "particular", NOT "particulat". The 'r' and the 't' are right next to each other on the keyboard so I made a typo.
Guy   Fri Dec 09, 2005 3:16 am GMT
>>So true Pete. What nasty piece of work he is to say such a horrible thing. <<

Whatever, believe whatever it is that you want to believe. It's tedious explaining myself time after time, not to mention a complete waste of it, when it's becoming abundantly clear that a simple message is far too complex for some poor sods to comprehend. Not my fault that there are people out there in the world that aren't too bright.

>>And Candy's right, he's a misogynist to the hilt.<<

Depends on what your definition of "misogynist" is. Last time I checked in a dictionary a misogynist is a man that has an irrational hatred for all women and incidently I get along perfectly fine with a number of women in my life so...it beats me where you pulled your new definition of "misogynist". I'll take a stab and guess probably from your ass.
Uriel   Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:12 am GMT
zxcvbnm, yes, I am a GAE speaker. And I'm not upset. I'm just pointing out that most of the people I'VE met with heavy regional accents don't, and probably can't, change them situationally. They aren't trying to be difficult or obtuse; that's just how they talk.

I would agree with you that many "young, educated, white-collar, white people" can speak GAE regardless of their native roots. But how about all othe people who DON'T fit that narrow description?
Damian in Scotland   Fri Dec 09, 2005 9:09 am GMT
!@#$%^&*!@#$%^&*()_+ ()_+

Och...fie! Wow is me! I very much appreciated your comments, but my lighthearted remark fell flat on its face......never mind. No way was offence or snottiness intended, !@#$%^&*()_+ It's just that I was intrigued with the pronunciation of your name and Icelandic was chosen completely at random, as is my wont. Are you not familar with the British form of humour or friendly ripostes? Clearly not. It reminded me of Bill Bryson's experience when he went to buy a ticket at a train station down in Yorkshire. He needed to obtain receipts for all his expenses but the comment made by the ticket seller as he handed it over to Bryson, delivered in deadpan style, registered with him as fortunately he had lived long enough in this country to appreciate the subtlety of the humour and not react in a mixture of indignance, frustration, incredulity or merely total bafflement.

If you live long enough in the UK it's something you have to come to terms with. We are a funny lot.....literally.

btw: ust how DO you pronounce your name, !@#$%^&*()_+? Do you think Sean could get his Edinburgh tongue round it? :-)
Damian in Edinburgh   Fri Dec 09, 2005 9:11 am GMT
Guy: my advice...tread carefully, pal! ....egg shells are tairrrribly brittle..... LOL
Travis   Fri Dec 09, 2005 9:58 am GMT
>>zxcvbnm, yes, I am a GAE speaker. And I'm not upset. I'm just pointing out that most of the people I'VE met with heavy regional accents don't, and probably can't, change them situationally. They aren't trying to be difficult or obtuse; that's just how they talk.<<

One example of such would be myself, where I can often speak over a very wide range of registers, going from very informal to practically poetic, and yet there remain certain key non-GAE phonological features, such as Canadian Raising, which are constant across all of such. However, though, even though I could deliberately remove certain non-GAE features of my speech which are present across registers, for me it is a matter not of not being able to but rather not wanting to and seeing no reason to.

>>I would agree with you that many "young, educated, white-collar, white people" can speak GAE regardless of their native roots. But how about all othe people who DON'T fit that narrow description?<<

The thing here, though, is that such people of that very sort, if they are actually from here, don't seem to not speak not in their native dialect. It's not a matter of whether they can or not, but rather a matter of whether they actually do. Of course, one must not confuse the use of more formal registers with the use of GAE here, as just because they may use more formal registers more often than others does not necessarily mean that they speak GAE per se.
Travis   Fri Dec 09, 2005 10:27 am GMT
>>Incidentally, unlike most UK speakers who CANNOT pull-off RP, even if they tried, most American speakers (even those from the south) CAN speak GAE if they really want to. I've met plenty of young, educated (white) people from the south who use GAE in the NYC metro area. That does not mean that they cannot speak with a southern accent if they wanted to (they probably do so when they're down south in situations where it may be advantageous to do so or when addressing certain people) but outside of that "environment" they use GAE.

I think that most young, educated, white-collar, white people in the US are moving (or have moved to) GAE or at least CAN speak GAE.<<

As I myself have said above, though, that is not the impression that I get from at least other students here at UW Madison, such as other people from Milwaukee, where it does not seem like there is any real switching to GAE proper amongst students who are from this general area, no matter the environment, speaking to foreign students aside. On one hand there is a definite mismash of dialect features present amongst the students and faculty, unlike at home where I am used to a far more homogenous set of dialect features being present in individuals' speech, but at the same time one can definitely hear dialect features present in various students' speech which are most definitely not GAE. Similarly, there seems to be practically no impetus to move towards GAE here. Consequently, it seems as if what you are saying here only describes some areas, such as the South, where there definitely is such a move amongst such individuals towards such.

>>Although you may not be able to "impersonate" a Southerner, many Southerners CAN speak GAE because it has become SO ubiquitous in American movies and television and in the media in general. I suspect from your post that you are a GAE speaker. If so, I do not see what you are so upset about since the previous post actually recommends that people speak GAE.<<

The matter is that dialect is a key part of local or regional identity, and to reject said dialect for some homogenized standard such as GAE is to dialect said local or regional identity. Similarly on a local level, one common complaint, amongst many, about TV shows and movies that have been set here in Wisconsin is that they have not been in dialect, and thus the people in them don't actually sound as if they are from here, and by extension, as if they have any actual connection to here. Consequently, things here just become yet another setting, as said dialect is key portion of the actual local identity.