formas de tratamento

Eis um bom exemplo de portugues. Agrada-me imenso ler textos assim. Por isso sempre escolho autores ou jornais lusitanos. :-)


Adeus pai e voltou-se para trás no fundo da encosta. Não o devia ter abandonado, a incapacidade de actuar fazia-o perder os que estremecia, o ciclo do fim fechava-se, o professor ia ser expulso do ensino, a mulher abandonara-o difamando-o, o filho ia partir para a guerra: o gesto decisivo tornou-se-lhes então exaltante, prepararam-no com discreção, subiram ao outeiro, escreveram cartas, beberam, fazia calor e o ar estava perfumado, foram deuses

Differences between European and Brazilian Portuguese

Brazilian and European Portuguese are very far apart—from spelling to the use of verb tenses and terminology. In many situations, the use of European Portuguese is unacceptable to Brazilians, and vice-versa. The choice of words can be completely different and sometimes "laughable." This is specially true when it comes to technical texts, where even the choices of "imported" words are different.

A Brazilian person can read a book or hear an interview on the radio—but that is the extent of the use of European Portuguese in Brazil. In Portugal, Brazilian Portuguese would carry a lot of "mistakes" and awkward word choices and may often be considered an uncultured variation of the European form.

If we are talking about a couple of lines in a packaging (contents, or regulatory info), you could probably use one translation—but you should remember that regulations vary from country to country. If your product is targeted to a specific market niche or widespread use, you should have two translations. Another fact to consider is national pride, that is, the response of a consumer to a product that is obviously not directed to him/her.

The good news is that in most subject matters you can have a text translated for one target country and then edited (localized/adapted) for another. The bad news is that this is not a very cost efficient solution; Brazilian and Portuguese translators would rather translate "from scratch" than edit a text translated for another market, since the changes are usually very extensive, and the time required for the task might be longer than the time required to do a normal editing.

The relevance of the difference between the two forms of Portuguese doesn't apply to all situations. José Saramago, for instance, is considered a great writer in any of the Portuguese speaking countries (there are eight: Angola, Brazil, Cape Verde, Guinea-Bissau, Mozambique, Portugal, S. Tomé and Príncipe, and East Timor). The more formal the language, the easier to understand it in another Portuguese speaking country; but make no mistake, there is NO such thing as standard Portuguese.

The Orthographic Agreement

Spelling (Orthography) in Brazil and in Portugal is ruled by law, and the Brazilian and Portuguese spellings are different. Portuguese speaking countries signed an orthographic agreement that was supposed to be in place (kicks in January 1st., 2009 in Brazil). More than unifying spellings, the agreement is oriented to accept one another's spelling as correct. The agreement will not impact translations in the sense that a translation directed to Brazil will still not be recommended to be used in Portugal, and vice-versa. The agreement (in Portuguese) can be found here. Lyris' comment about it summarize very well the question.

Orthographic Agreement will kick in January 1st, 2009 in Brazil. There will be a transition period when both, the new and the old orthography will be accepted. This period begins January 1st. 2009 and ends December 31st, 2012.

More information

This FAQ contains some articles dealing with the subject. Lyris Wiedemann wrote a very good article about this issue. The article was published in The ATA Chronicle (August, 1988) and can be found in the next question of this FAQ section.

For information about the size of the Brazilian and Portuguese economies, population, and trade with North America, please click here.

"Brazilian and European Portuguese are very far apart"

If soo how come I can read any Brasilian text, or listening to music, or make a phone call, easily. There are differences? Sure, enough to call it completly separated languages? I think not.

Personnaly I never had any difficulty when going to Brasil (south or north).

beija-flor: Could you tell me the name of the author whose text you posted? The only Portuguese author I have already read something about is José Saramago.
In case you would like to try some good Brazilian literature I would suggest you ¨Machado de Assis¨, ¨José de Alencar¨, ¨Carlos Drummond de Andrade¨or ¨Clarice Lispector¨.

Cheers!!

O Brasil é o primeiro país lusófono a adoptar as novas normas ortográficas
Brasileiros começam a adoptar normas do Acordo Ortográfico
05.01.2009 - 15h19 Jorge Marmelo
Os especialistas ainda esgrimem argumentos a favor e contra as novas regras, mas o Acordo Ortográfico da Língua Portuguesa já começou a entrar nos hábitos dos brasileiros. Segundo um inquérito online lançado pelo jornal diário "A Folha de S. Paulo", no qual as normas entraram em vigor no dia 1 de Janeiro, vinte e sete por cento dos que responderam à pergunta feita no site já começaram a escrever segundo as regras do ainda polémico acordo, enquanto trinta e quatro afirmam que vão esperar por 2013 para fazê-lo, uma vez que, a partir daí, a nova ortografia será a única considerada correcta.

Os resultados do inquérito valem o que valem e são meramente indicativos de uma tendência, mas a pergunta “Você já começou a escrever com as novas regras?” tinha registado já, até ontem, cerca de sete mil respostas, três dias após o início da consulta. A maioria dos leitores da Folha (3.174 votos às 14 horas de Lisboa) parecem, a avaliar por esta amostra, disponíveis para, mais tarde ou mais cedo, adoptarem as regras do Acordo Ortográfico. A resposta com mais votos (2.767 votos) é, ainda assim, a escolhida por aqueles que afirmam que vão ignorar as novas regras, representando quarenta por cento dos que participaram no inquérito.

O Brasil, recorde-se, tornou-se, no dia 1, o primeiro país lusófono a adoptar o Acordo Ortográfico, que ali apenas altera, em traços gerais, as regras da acentuação e o uso do hífen. No ensino público, as regras só começarão a ser implementadas em 2010.

As novas normas foram já adoptadas pela maioria dos grandes jornais brasileiros ("A Folha de S. Paulo" é um dos jornais com maior tiragem do mundo) e por algumas instituições públicas. O jornal associou-se mesmo ao lançamento do livro “Escrevendo pela nova ortografia”, editado pelo conceituado Instituto Antônio Houaiss, responsável por aquele que é tido como um dos mais completos dicionários de língua portuguesa. A forma definitiva de algumas das palavras alteradas pelo acordo só deverá, porém, ser fixada pelo novo glossário da Academia Brasileira de Letras, que será publicado no próximo mês.

fonte: www.publico.pt

Thanks for the article, Rui.
Personally I think that Brazil should make sure all Brazilians have access to education and the should worry about unifying the writing system. Personally I don't intend to change the way I write in Portuguese. I don't like writing reforms and didn't accept the reform for German either!! :)

Cheers!!

tudo bem para os lusófonos.

European Portuguese and Brazilian Portuguese will always be two different language variants, with very strong incompatibility issues (and very strong feelings toward each other :-)). The spelling reforms only changes about 0,5% of Brazilian Portuguese words and about 1,5% of European Portuguese words. Besides, the reforms only apply to the spelling, and not to things like syntax, region/culture specific vocabulary and pronunciation. So the reforms will not unify both variants into one and only ‘language’.

Also, internet searches will only be more difficult, not easier, since it’ll be more difficult to differentiate (at first look) Brazilian from European Portuguese in internet search results, while both language variants will still be different from each other everywhere else. A translator for Brazilian Portuguese searching for a term in Brazilian Portuguese will have much more trouble after the new spelling floods the Web, since both Brazilian Portuguese and European Portuguese will appear at first sight as the same variant. This is problematic if, for example, the translator in question doing a search on the internet finds a legal term in a Web page that he thinks has been written in Brazilian Portuguese, when, in fact, it has been written in European Portuguese (but he doesn’t know it because of the somewhat uniform spelling). The term will probably be unsuitable for use in a Brazilian text, but if the translator doesn’t know it is a term of European Portuguese, then if he decides to use it, it’ll be a wrong translation. And vice-versa. So, because of the spelling reform, Portuguese translators and terminologists will have to double their attention in terminology searches — not to mention their attention when trying not to mix old with new spelling. Only those with very good search skills will be able to differentiate one variant from the other.

And, most important of all, the new spelling reform will NOT change the fact that you need a native speaker of Brazilian Portuguese for a translation that’ll be used in Brazil and a native speaker of European Portuguese for a translation that’ll be used in Portugal.

szep: Translation into Portuguese is indeed a daunting task and I've lost countless job opportunities because I can't write in EP, which isn't something to be surprised since I was educated totally in BP. I really think this reform is a waste of time and money because Brazilians and Portuguese are too proud (In terms of language) and nationalistic to give in for a greater good. I won't change the way I write unless I'm arrested for that :) After all, I'm too old to adapt to reforms that will make writing in Portuguese even more complicated.
It is really a pity that Portuguese speaking countries can't come together in order to propagate their language.

Viva à lusofonia!?

Please don't overestimate the differences between EP e BP. They occur mostly in informal levels of language, in less educated socio-economical contexts, and evidently there are dialects and sociolects (inside EP as well as inside BP). Yet at a standard educated level it is the same language. For instance, that this text:

"As miocardites podem ter inúmeras causas: vírus, bactérias, medicamentos, doenças auto-imunes, etc... As miocardites podem ser reversíveis ou evoluírem para um quadro de miocardiopatia dilatada (leia adiante). Geralmente, as miocardites manifestam-se com sintomas de insuficiência cardíaca, com um início súbito.

As miocardiopatias são doenças progressivas que alteram a estrutura e comprometem a função de bomba da parede muscular (miocárdio), das câmaras inferiores e maiores do coração (ventrículos). Existem inúmeras causas para as miocardiopatias, no entanto, alguns casos não têm uma causa identificável (casos idiopáticos)."

It's impossible to tell if it is *EP* or *BP*, right?... It's just good, old Portuguese.

It's impossible to tell if it is *EP* or *BP*, right?... It's just good, old Portugues

Nao sou Brasileiro nem portugues, mas desejo dizer que as duas variantes tem muitas diferenças (gramaticais, ortograficas, foneticas) maiores do que as de outros idiomas como Espanhol americano e europeu ou ingles britanico e norteamericano. Quem começa a estudar Portugues, imediatamente dà por essas diferenças e normalmente tem de escolher uma dessas duas variantes. Por exemplo no meu pais hà até livros distintos para as duas formas. O uso do pronomes pessoais sujeitos, dos pronomes encliticos e mesocliticos etc é totalmente diferente e também muitas palavras do lexico basico.

É claro que há algumas diferenças gramaticais, no entanto é possível lermos um texto inteiro sem que nenhum desses elementos de divergência ocorra. Por ex., veja-se o texto que eu colei acima, não é possível identificá-lo como brasileiro ou português europeu, é português tout court. Portanto, não há assim TANTA diferença...

Já no campo da fonética as diferenças são muito mais significativas.

Why are the differences between EP and BP so much bigger than the differences between European Spanish and Latin American Spanish?

"Why are the differences between EP and BP so much bigger than the differences between European Spanish and Latin American Spanish?"

Listen to the Portuguese and Brazialian news and you will find out all the differences :-) They almost sound like two different languages

os lusofonos?? Hoje nao escrevem nada? :-)