Sometimes Walloon is treating as a French dialect,but it differs from French more,than Spanish from Portuguese. Brazilian Portuguese is a set of dialects of Portuguese.
formas de tratamento
If soo how come I can read any Brasilian text, or listening to music, or make a phone call, easily. There are differences? Sure, enough to call it completly separated languages? I think not.
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The same is true of Spanish for a Brazilian,
I can read any Spanish text, or listening to music, or make a phone call, easily. There are differences? Sure, enough to call it completely separated languages? I think not.
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The same is true of Spanish for a Brazilian,
I can read any Spanish text, or listening to music, or make a phone call, easily. There are differences? Sure, enough to call it completely separated languages? I think not.
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Personally I think that Brazil should make sure all Brazilians have access to education and the should worry about unifying the writing system. Personally I don't intend to change the way I write in Portuguese. I don't like writing reforms and didn't accept the reform for German either!! :)
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The reform did not have Brazilian education as a scope, but to make book publishing companies make a lot of money by publishing all those books with new spellings: calling it a NOVÍSSIMA GRAMÁTICA or NOVÍSSIMO AURÉLIO.
lamentável
Personally I think that Brazil should make sure all Brazilians have access to education and the should worry about unifying the writing system. Personally I don't intend to change the way I write in Portuguese. I don't like writing reforms and didn't accept the reform for German either!! :)
**
The reform did not have Brazilian education as a scope, but to make book publishing companies make a lot of money by publishing all those books with new spellings: calling it a NOVÍSSIMA GRAMÁTICA or NOVÍSSIMO AURÉLIO.
lamentável
''And, most important of all, the new spelling reform will NOT change the fact that you need a native speaker of Brazilian Portuguese for a translation that’ll be used in Brazil and a native speaker of European Portuguese for a translation that’ll be used in Portugal. ''
This is right. I don't see how a camera or PC manual used in Portugal could ever be used in Brazil, people would find ''utilizador de câmara'' (instead of ''usuário de câmera'') very weird. It's said translation teams of foreign companies find it easier to translate from English text directly into Brazilian Pt or Continental Pt than to translate from one norm of Portuguese into another.
This is right. I don't see how a camera or PC manual used in Portugal could ever be used in Brazil, people would find ''utilizador de câmara'' (instead of ''usuário de câmera'') very weird. It's said translation teams of foreign companies find it easier to translate from English text directly into Brazilian Pt or Continental Pt than to translate from one norm of Portuguese into another.
--Please don't overestimate the differences between EP e BP. They occur mostly in informal levels of language, in less educated socio-economical contexts,--
The differences between mesolectal variant of Brazilian Portuguese and mesolectal variant of Continental Portuguese are very marked (mesolect = a variant that is neither bookish nor dialectal, the one used in normal conversation, sitcoms, movies, songs), so you're not right.
Portuguese people like calling the language used in Brazilian movies, songs, sitcoms ''lousy grammar'' but it's a problem of Portugal, not a problem of Brazil. 99% of middle class and upper class speakers speak like in a Globo soap opera, and even professors when they address their students use this mesolectal speech (just like in Hollywood, no one would ever say: Whom shall I call? or It is I. )) Grow up, Portuguese people. If you find our language ''bad grammar'' stop watching our Tv series or listening to our songs (like ''Beija eu'' by Marisa Monte). Period. You do need a translation to read Paulo Coelho (yes, Paulo Coelho is translated from Brazilian into Lusitanian because Portuguese people hate our language calling it ''poor grammar'' they need a translation; just like American kids in Harry Potter case, but Paulo Coelho is for older people, not for kids )
The differences between mesolectal variant of Brazilian Portuguese and mesolectal variant of Continental Portuguese are very marked (mesolect = a variant that is neither bookish nor dialectal, the one used in normal conversation, sitcoms, movies, songs), so you're not right.
Portuguese people like calling the language used in Brazilian movies, songs, sitcoms ''lousy grammar'' but it's a problem of Portugal, not a problem of Brazil. 99% of middle class and upper class speakers speak like in a Globo soap opera, and even professors when they address their students use this mesolectal speech (just like in Hollywood, no one would ever say: Whom shall I call? or It is I. )) Grow up, Portuguese people. If you find our language ''bad grammar'' stop watching our Tv series or listening to our songs (like ''Beija eu'' by Marisa Monte). Period. You do need a translation to read Paulo Coelho (yes, Paulo Coelho is translated from Brazilian into Lusitanian because Portuguese people hate our language calling it ''poor grammar'' they need a translation; just like American kids in Harry Potter case, but Paulo Coelho is for older people, not for kids )
É uma questão mó antiga:
http://produto.mercadolivre.com.br/MLB-86597555-_JM
http://produto.mercadolivre.com.br/MLB-86597555-_JM
Simplesmente já não vejo o mesmo nível de proximidade da língua entre os países. Basta pegar num manual de anatomia que foi traduzido por uma editora brasileira, e um por uma editora portuguesa, e as diferenças são claras. E é por causa destas que os meus professores sempre pediram para evitarmos os manuais em português do brasil, pois os termos diferem significativamente.
"Brazilian Portuguese is a set of dialects of Portuguese."
Even if that were true BP Portuguese has about 20 times more speakers than the "original" Portuguese and is also the reason why Portuguese is recognized internationally. I don't think that Africa (Even Africa has more Portuguese speakers than Portugal) counts much for that because Portuguese is an OFFICIAL language there, which is very different from native language!!I guess that some people who post here have the "settler syndrome" and haven't moved on from the fact that Portugal is no longer in control of what's going on in Brazil, specially when it comes to language usage.
So, my message to the Portuguese people who still think they speak more correctly than Brazilians and that EP is the standard for Portuguese: MOVE ON!!!
Changing matters a little, I started calling people from Mozambique due to work and THEY LOVE the Brazilian accent. I even overhear the secretaries saying "he's Brazilian" with a certain motivation. One of my customers once called me and said "E aí cumpadi, tudo beleza?¨, which was a surprise and a joy to see that people like the way I speak. Either way, I think that the Portuguese should try to please their former colonies because Brazil has been investing in Angola/Mozambique and Brazilian influence can be seen in these countries. It is also interesting that Mozambican Portuguese is much easier for me to understand than EP. What should be the reason for that?
Cheers!!
Even if that were true BP Portuguese has about 20 times more speakers than the "original" Portuguese and is also the reason why Portuguese is recognized internationally. I don't think that Africa (Even Africa has more Portuguese speakers than Portugal) counts much for that because Portuguese is an OFFICIAL language there, which is very different from native language!!I guess that some people who post here have the "settler syndrome" and haven't moved on from the fact that Portugal is no longer in control of what's going on in Brazil, specially when it comes to language usage.
So, my message to the Portuguese people who still think they speak more correctly than Brazilians and that EP is the standard for Portuguese: MOVE ON!!!
Changing matters a little, I started calling people from Mozambique due to work and THEY LOVE the Brazilian accent. I even overhear the secretaries saying "he's Brazilian" with a certain motivation. One of my customers once called me and said "E aí cumpadi, tudo beleza?¨, which was a surprise and a joy to see that people like the way I speak. Either way, I think that the Portuguese should try to please their former colonies because Brazil has been investing in Angola/Mozambique and Brazilian influence can be seen in these countries. It is also interesting that Mozambican Portuguese is much easier for me to understand than EP. What should be the reason for that?
Cheers!!
"This is right. I don't see how a camera or PC manual used in Portugal could ever be used in Brazil, people would find ''utilizador de câmara'' (instead of ''usuário de câmera'') very weird. It's said translation teams of foreign companies find it easier to translate from English text directly into Brazilian Pt or Continental Pt than to translate from one norm of Portuguese into another."
Sorry, but this completly wrong. Since when I dont understand "utilizador"? We dont use usuario term either.
Noone is saying brasilians use poor portuguese grammar, so read previous posts before, please.
I guess some people would like it to be 2 different languages, and are poiting out all the diferrences they can remenber.
Sorry, but this completly wrong. Since when I dont understand "utilizador"? We dont use usuario term either.
Noone is saying brasilians use poor portuguese grammar, so read previous posts before, please.
I guess some people would like it to be 2 different languages, and are poiting out all the diferrences they can remenber.
From a grammatical point of view European Portuguese is much more conservative and interesting, especially for an expert in the Romance languages. In addition Portuguese pronunciation is so difficult and peculiar, I simply adore it....
European Portuguese sounds Slavic. Brazilian Portuguese sounds more Romance, more like Italian and Spanish.
Italian and Spanish don't sound the same, at least for me....The intonation is very different.
Argentinian Spanish and Paulistano Brazilian Portuguese have Italian sing-a-song intonation.
"The Nederlandse Taalunie (NTU) or "Dutch Language Union" (DLU) is an international institution for discussing issues relating to the Nederlandse language (Dutch language). It was founded on 9 September 1980 by the Netherlands and Belgium (in respect of the Flemish Community). Suriname has been an associate member of the Taalunie since 2005.
Standaardnederlands or Algemeen Nederlands ('Common Dutch', abbreviated to AN) is the standard language as taught in schools and used by authorities in the Netherlands, Flanders, Suriname, Aruba and the Netherlands Antilles. The Dutch Language Union defines what is AN and what is not. Since efforts to "uplift" people came to be considered rather presumptuous, the earlier name Algemeen Beschaafd Nederlands ("Common Civilized Dutch") and its abbreviation ABN have been replaced with Algemeen Nederlands and thus AN. The implicit insinuation that people who spoke dialect or with an accent were not civilized was thus removed."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Language_Union
Maybe Portuguese speaking countries will found the Portuguese Language Union?
Standaardnederlands or Algemeen Nederlands ('Common Dutch', abbreviated to AN) is the standard language as taught in schools and used by authorities in the Netherlands, Flanders, Suriname, Aruba and the Netherlands Antilles. The Dutch Language Union defines what is AN and what is not. Since efforts to "uplift" people came to be considered rather presumptuous, the earlier name Algemeen Beschaafd Nederlands ("Common Civilized Dutch") and its abbreviation ABN have been replaced with Algemeen Nederlands and thus AN. The implicit insinuation that people who spoke dialect or with an accent were not civilized was thus removed."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Language_Union
Maybe Portuguese speaking countries will found the Portuguese Language Union?
"Maybe Portuguese speaking countries will found the Portuguese Language Union? "
Comparing Dutch, which has only about 22 millions speakers with Portuguese is a little tough because that's very different from dealing with more than 200 million people, from which 180 million are in Brazil. Since EP speakers are only 10 million people, I don't think they would have any right to decide what's right or wrong in the language spoken by the massive majority of BP speakers.
Cheers!!
Comparing Dutch, which has only about 22 millions speakers with Portuguese is a little tough because that's very different from dealing with more than 200 million people, from which 180 million are in Brazil. Since EP speakers are only 10 million people, I don't think they would have any right to decide what's right or wrong in the language spoken by the massive majority of BP speakers.
Cheers!!