How much spanish sounds like brazilian portuguese?

Ren   Wed Apr 21, 2010 7:29 pm GMT
User87   Wed Apr 21, 2010 7:53 pm GMT
<<En mi país, Colombia, los partidos de fútbol brasileño en portugués nunca se traducen, ni siquiera las emisiónes brasileñas en la radio o películas.>>

Sources?...

Anyway,what does this have to do?
you understand a person who speaks Greek? u should,following your logic.

<<Incluso el portugués de Portugal es muy comprensible para mí.>>

Wow,thats very impressive. I am brazilian and i cant watch something in european portuguese gladly. No, serious. ;)
User87   Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:04 pm GMT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyb2tfgNRyg

Greece has the same types of music from spain, this is very hilarious and embarrassing. Ritmo caliente. :)
Now someone tell me where finishes and where starts the spanish and the greek part.
Rem   Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:07 pm GMT
it's not embarrasing at all that Spain and Greece have the same kind of music. It would be embarrasing if Spain shared something with Brazil, but not with Greece. Greece is a noble country, the craddle of Western Civilisation, whereas Brazil is a third world shithole. I don't say this to offend Brazilian people of here but as a matter of fact.
joma   Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:57 pm GMT
Rem, lo siento por usted.
Ren   Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:58 am GMT
thats probably Franco, the moron
JGreco   Thu Apr 22, 2010 2:30 am GMT
The only real differences that I heard between the Latin American Spanish and the Greek in the music presented is the frequency of the TH sound and ks (represented by the x sound) in the Greek music that is not present in The Spanish. Though those differences would be minimal if presented with music from the North of Spain with Greek. Though, searching further I found examples of the growing Greek reggaeton movement all over youtube. When I hear those Greek Reggaeton songs those sound indistinguishable from Latin American Spanish. Amazingly so.
joma   Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:24 pm GMT
Greek is still Greek to everyone...kind of like you Ren :-)
UserTh   Fri Apr 23, 2010 5:26 pm GMT
The answer above that refers to what are called in linguistics and phonetics open and closed vowels provides one reason. Spanish uses only five "pure" vowel sounds, all "closed": a, e, i, o, u. Portuguese uses seven: a, e, ε, i, ɔ, o, and u.

There are other reasons:

1. In Portuguese, vowels followed by nasals (m, n) are nasalized; the consonants m and n are not articulated at all. Thus, the word "santo" could be written santo, samto, or sãto and the sound would be the same: sã-tu. One does not hear the n; in Spanish, however the vowel is barely nasalized in anticipation of the "n". In this sense, the two languages are at opposite ends of the spectrum.

2. If the final syllable of a word ends in o or e in Portuguese, the syllable is very short in spoken conversation; in addition, the o is usually pronounced u and the e is pronounced i.

3. Standard Spanish intonation consists of two levels. On the first accented syllable, the tone rises to the second level in a simple declarative phrase. If the first syllable of the phrase is accented, then that syllable is pronouced at the higher tone and so are all subsequent syllables until the speaker arrives at the end of the phrase. The final accented syllable in the phrase is pronounced at the lower (first) level or tone.

4. Standard Portuguese intonation consists of three levels. The tone begins at the intermediate (2nd level) and rises to the third level in a simple declarative phrase on the first accented syllable. If the first syllable of the phrase is accented, then that syllable is pronouced at the highest (third) level or tone as so are all subsequent syllables until the speaker arrives at the end of the phrase; the tone falls to a lower level when the speaker pronounces the accented syllable of the final word in the phrase. If that word is not the final word in the sentence, the tone falls to the intermediate level and rises again to the third level when the speaker pronouces the accented syllable of the next word. When the word is the final word in the sentence, the tone plunges to the lowest (first) level to indicate the end of the declarative sentence.

5. When interrogative words (who?, what?, etc.) are not used, then, when asking questions in Spanish, the speaker's tone rises in a trailing upward "movement" on the last syllable, much as does the tone in English when one asks a question. In Portuguese, the interrogative intonation does not sound like a question to a Spanish or English speaker. The Portuguese speaker begins at the lowest (first) level and rises to the third on the accented syllable of the last word in the question, after which the tone falls on the very next syllable.

6. In most of Brazil, the "trilled" "r" in Spanish is not trilled at all; it is pronounced from the pharynx and it is often, incorrectly, confused with "h" in English.

7. The final "l" in a Portuguese syllable is not articulated with the toungue flat, with only the tip being placed behind the upper teeth (as in Spanish). In careful speech, the tip is still placed behind the teeth, but the back part of the tongue is raised toward the velum, producing a "u sound". If the tongue is not placed behind the teeth, then the final "l" can be confused with "u".

8. Dipthonged nasals have no equivalent in Spanish (or English): ão, ães, ões are the result of nasalizing the sound under the tilde (~), then pronouncing the following vowel. Although written "o", the point of articulation of the "o" in ão is approximately the same as that of the "u". The same applies to the "e" in words like "pães" (loaves of bread): the point of articulation is about the same as that of the "i".

9. The intervocalic "l" has been lost in many Portuguese words. Note the loss of "l" in sair (salir in Spanish), hotéis (hoteles)".

10. There is no africate sound like ch in "church" in Portuguese. The sound represented by ch and, often by x, is about the same as sh in "shall."

11. There is no "continuous k" (the "j" in Spanish) in Portuguese. This Spanish sound is also often confused with the h in English.

12. The sound often transcribed as zh (the "s" sound in measure) is represented in Portuguese by the letter "j" and by the "g" before e and i. This sound does not exist in Spanish.

There is more, but I hope that I have given you an idea.

JGreco Thu Apr 22, 2010 2:30 am GMT
<< he deserves much prestige>>
latino   Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:10 pm GMT
resumen y claridad , solo para "no fililógos"

En el español neutro hablado:

- es indistinto el uso de la b o v
- la h no se pronuncia
- solo existen 5 vocales
- la comprensión del oyente se basa en reconocer las 5 vocales y las sílabas que ellas forman.
- Por eso no son importantes los sonidos consonánticos en este idioma y se permite diferentes acentos "sabrosones" sin ningún problema (unidad en la diversidad).

Por eso los portugeses y brasileños pueden entenderlo facilmente ya que el español es un portugues con sólo 5 vocales para el que no son importantes los sonidos consonánticos.

Yo creo que poco a poco iremos a una unificación de ambos idiomas en uno común.

no será un cambio o absorción de un idioma por otro, sino que dado la grandeza de Brasil será una unificación progresiva, por ejemplo ellos cogerán la ñ (que ya la tienen nh, y las cinco vocales ) y nosotros veremos normal "obrigado". "vose"/vos/tu/ usted, raposa , "bon dia" cuadrilla (banda de atracadores ) etc..... que tampoco son extraños al español.



En la vida "la económia de medios" es la que tiene éxito, es lo que la gente "normal" entiende, valora y se llama "koiné "...."unidad en la diversidad" , nunca se debe de usar:

- según YO diga.
- o mucho menos "debes de decir"

y menos en un territorio tan grande y variado como América, porque en un territoro tan amplio solo puede mandar la voluntad y el sentimiento, no la gramatica "seudocultural imperialista" tan propia de los WASP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_JXc1Yoh70
latino   Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:42 pm GMT
Amplio la ultima parte de mi opinión:

"y menos en un territorio tan grande y variado como América, porque en un territoro tan amplio solo puede mandar la voluntad, el sentimiento y EL INTERÉS, no la gramatica "seudocultural imperialista" tan propia de los WASP".

perdón

obrigado
Nikosia   Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:19 am GMT
When a Greek goes to the US, people there mistake him for a Latino.
Y Agapy   Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:25 am GMT
Me gusta mucho Helada, a new ice cream from Greece.
Lugo   Sat Apr 24, 2010 9:45 am GMT
’ Ai se os brasileiros descobrem ... Chamar Brasileiro ao Português falado no Brasil, querer catapultar as duas variedades do Português a duas línguas diferentes, dar mais peso às diferenças do que às semelhanças é fazer o contrário do que convém a Portugal, aos portugueses e ao Português. É falta de vista e é mesmo um erro histórico que poderá a prazo condenar o Português Europeu à extinção. Pode ser que o Brasil decida tomar esse rumo, embora não haja ainda razões para o suspeitar, mas nós não temos de 'ajudar à festa'.
Não esqueçamos que o Brasil tem uma área de cerca de 8 milhões e 500 mil km , ou seja, quase 100 vezes o tamanho de Portugal, e que tem uma população estimada em 170 milhões de habitantes, ou seja, 17 vezes o número de residentes em Portugal. Não esqueçamos que esta força bruta não serve apenas para as estatísticas, serve, acima de tudo, para assegurar um índice de diversidade suficiente para a preservação das espécies, e serve para a formação de uma massa crítica que permita a produção de conhecimento e a sua expressão em Português. Será que os nossos interesses são outros? A política linguística do Português não deve, pois, e assim concluo, deixar de ser pensada conjuntamente por Portugal e pelo Brasil. Sem retórica e sem subordinação às circunstâncias de celebração desta ou daquela data festiva. Com rigor.

http://www.fl.ul.pt/pessoais/a_villalva/publicacoes/falam.pdf