Oswaldo - "se la vi" (I saw hers) in Spanish. How would you translate the latter ("se la vi") in French? - J'ai vu le sien (la sienne).
But, I saw her = Je l'ai vue or je la voyais
But, I saw her = Je l'ai vue or je la voyais
Spanish and Italian are much closer than Italian and French
A FISH in Spanish is UNA PEZ similar to
LT PISCiS
IT PESCE
PG PEIXE
RO PESTE
UN PESCADO is UNA PEZ that has been caught (que se ha pescado) but not one which has been removed temporarily from its habitat to be cared for in an aquarium, for example. (Such a specimen would remain UNA PEZ) One, on the other hand which has been fished or flushed or cast from its watery environment and has been left to die or is already dead is called UN PESCADO.
In any case, speakers of the five languages cited above might understand one anothers' words for fish given the proper circumstances. One would,however, play with the dickens to try to get these five to comprehend the FR word which when transliterated into SP, at least, seems to be a nasalized form of PUASO'.Such an utterance means nothing in SP but might be taken for the preterite 3rd pers. sing. form POSO'( he/she/it posed) which comes from the verb POSAR. The stressed final O often marks the preterite in the 3rd pers. sing. in SP.
Phonologically speaking, the FR forms just don't do the trick! For example,compare SP AGUA PG AGUA and IT ACQUA pronounced as they are written with the FR pronuntiation of the same word /o/; or SP AGOSTO PG AGOSTO IT AGOSTO RO AUGUST (again, pronounced as they are written) with the FR pronunciation of the same: /u/!
But the greatest phonological barrier between FR and the rest of Romance is the lack of word stress. In the other tongues one hears a stress for each word and that allows one to perceive that a word has ,indeed, been spoken. (This gives one a half a chance to try and figure out which word has been said).But in FR one only stresses the last syllable in each breath group thus linking all other syllables into a single and lengthy APPARENT "word".
Then consider the following commonly-used lexical items in which EVEN Romanian participates but not FR. ( For some of these FR may have a literary equivalent like MOULT for BEAUCOUP but it will certainly not be the term encountered in everyday conversation) The order in which the terms will be listed shall be as follows: SP, PG, IT, RO, (and lastly) FR.:
TO BUY
COMPRAR COMPRAR COMPRARE CUMPARA = ACHETER
TO CALL
LLAMAR CHAMAR CHIAMARE CHEMA = APPELER
OPINION (nominalized verb)
PARECER PARECER PARERE PARERE+ AVIS
MUCH (in common speech)
MUCHO MUITO MOLTO MULT = BEAUCOUP
TO HIDE
ESCONDER ESCONDER NASCONDERE ASCUNDE=CACHER
TO FEAR
TEMER TEMER TEMERE (SE) TEME= CRAINDRE
DANGER (colloq. term)
PELIGRO PRIGO PERICOLO PERICOL = DANGER
TO GIVE
DAR DAR DARE DA = DONNER
ABOUT
CERCA DE CERCA DE CIRCA CIRCA = ENVIRON
HAPPY
FELIZ FELIZ FELICE FERICIT = HEUREUX
TO SWIM
NADAR NADAR NUOTARE INOTA = NAGER
( The FR< LT navigare)
ONION
CEBOLLA CEBOLA CIPOLLA CEAPA = OIGNON
HEN
GALLINA GALINHA GALLINA GAINA = POULE
TO FALL
CAER CAIR CADERE CADEA = TOMBER
LT PISCiS
IT PESCE
PG PEIXE
RO PESTE
UN PESCADO is UNA PEZ that has been caught (que se ha pescado) but not one which has been removed temporarily from its habitat to be cared for in an aquarium, for example. (Such a specimen would remain UNA PEZ) One, on the other hand which has been fished or flushed or cast from its watery environment and has been left to die or is already dead is called UN PESCADO.
In any case, speakers of the five languages cited above might understand one anothers' words for fish given the proper circumstances. One would,however, play with the dickens to try to get these five to comprehend the FR word which when transliterated into SP, at least, seems to be a nasalized form of PUASO'.Such an utterance means nothing in SP but might be taken for the preterite 3rd pers. sing. form POSO'( he/she/it posed) which comes from the verb POSAR. The stressed final O often marks the preterite in the 3rd pers. sing. in SP.
Phonologically speaking, the FR forms just don't do the trick! For example,compare SP AGUA PG AGUA and IT ACQUA pronounced as they are written with the FR pronuntiation of the same word /o/; or SP AGOSTO PG AGOSTO IT AGOSTO RO AUGUST (again, pronounced as they are written) with the FR pronunciation of the same: /u/!
But the greatest phonological barrier between FR and the rest of Romance is the lack of word stress. In the other tongues one hears a stress for each word and that allows one to perceive that a word has ,indeed, been spoken. (This gives one a half a chance to try and figure out which word has been said).But in FR one only stresses the last syllable in each breath group thus linking all other syllables into a single and lengthy APPARENT "word".
Then consider the following commonly-used lexical items in which EVEN Romanian participates but not FR. ( For some of these FR may have a literary equivalent like MOULT for BEAUCOUP but it will certainly not be the term encountered in everyday conversation) The order in which the terms will be listed shall be as follows: SP, PG, IT, RO, (and lastly) FR.:
TO BUY
COMPRAR COMPRAR COMPRARE CUMPARA = ACHETER
TO CALL
LLAMAR CHAMAR CHIAMARE CHEMA = APPELER
OPINION (nominalized verb)
PARECER PARECER PARERE PARERE+ AVIS
MUCH (in common speech)
MUCHO MUITO MOLTO MULT = BEAUCOUP
TO HIDE
ESCONDER ESCONDER NASCONDERE ASCUNDE=CACHER
TO FEAR
TEMER TEMER TEMERE (SE) TEME= CRAINDRE
DANGER (colloq. term)
PELIGRO PRIGO PERICOLO PERICOL = DANGER
TO GIVE
DAR DAR DARE DA = DONNER
ABOUT
CERCA DE CERCA DE CIRCA CIRCA = ENVIRON
HAPPY
FELIZ FELIZ FELICE FERICIT = HEUREUX
TO SWIM
NADAR NADAR NUOTARE INOTA = NAGER
( The FR< LT navigare)
ONION
CEBOLLA CEBOLA CIPOLLA CEAPA = OIGNON
HEN
GALLINA GALINHA GALLINA GAINA = POULE
TO FALL
CAER CAIR CADERE CADEA = TOMBER
I think that on the whole Italian and Spanish are the closest each other.
Regarding the similarity to Latin it is false that Spanish is closer to Latin in verbal conjugations:
lat amo amas amat amamus amatis amant
sp amo amas ama amamos amais aman
it amo ami ama amiamo amate amano
Perhaps Spanish is just a little bit closer to Latin in the present indicative, but for the others and for the other verbs????!!!!!!
Any analysis (verbal in this case) must be complete!!! And in any case I can give a counterexample:
Lat facere faciam facias faciat faciamus faciatis faciant (pres cong.)
Sp hacèr haga hagas haga hagamos hagais hagan
It fare faccia faccia faccia facciamo facciate facciano
And now is closer Italian or Spanish????!!!!!!!!!
If you further analize Spanish and Italian with respect to Latin you will find that they are with Sardianian the closest languages to Latin but Italian and Sardinian are the closest. I read that lexicon divergence from Latin is (numbers very common on the internet):
8% sard
12% it
20% sp
(40% fr, per tutti i francofili che credono il francese essere li primo discendente dal latino....)
But if you analyze the whole language (lexicon, morphology, syntax) you will find that Italian is the Closest!! The footprints of this closeness are the numerous fossiles of latin in italian that are not present in Spanish, as example plurals in -a, subjunctive in indirect interrogatives, use of teh infinitives, the strong use of absolute particple (from ablative absolute) ecc..
Bye
Regarding the similarity to Latin it is false that Spanish is closer to Latin in verbal conjugations:
lat amo amas amat amamus amatis amant
sp amo amas ama amamos amais aman
it amo ami ama amiamo amate amano
Perhaps Spanish is just a little bit closer to Latin in the present indicative, but for the others and for the other verbs????!!!!!!
Any analysis (verbal in this case) must be complete!!! And in any case I can give a counterexample:
Lat facere faciam facias faciat faciamus faciatis faciant (pres cong.)
Sp hacèr haga hagas haga hagamos hagais hagan
It fare faccia faccia faccia facciamo facciate facciano
And now is closer Italian or Spanish????!!!!!!!!!
If you further analize Spanish and Italian with respect to Latin you will find that they are with Sardianian the closest languages to Latin but Italian and Sardinian are the closest. I read that lexicon divergence from Latin is (numbers very common on the internet):
8% sard
12% it
20% sp
(40% fr, per tutti i francofili che credono il francese essere li primo discendente dal latino....)
But if you analyze the whole language (lexicon, morphology, syntax) you will find that Italian is the Closest!! The footprints of this closeness are the numerous fossiles of latin in italian that are not present in Spanish, as example plurals in -a, subjunctive in indirect interrogatives, use of teh infinitives, the strong use of absolute particple (from ablative absolute) ecc..
Bye
Guest,
En ce qui concerne le francais employe' dans votre message, il n'est pas du tout correct. Veuillez me pardonner l'absence d'accents; le clavier de mon ordinateur n'en possede pas. J'ai tire' la liste des mots du livre EuroComRom- Les sept tamis : lire les langues romanes des le depart qui a ete' traduit par un commite' de traducteurs europeens. Quant aux mots espagnols et francais de la liste je sais personellement qu'il sont corrects! Je parle ces deux langues.
Bien a vous,
Dinis
En ce qui concerne le francais employe' dans votre message, il n'est pas du tout correct. Veuillez me pardonner l'absence d'accents; le clavier de mon ordinateur n'en possede pas. J'ai tire' la liste des mots du livre EuroComRom- Les sept tamis : lire les langues romanes des le depart qui a ete' traduit par un commite' de traducteurs europeens. Quant aux mots espagnols et francais de la liste je sais personellement qu'il sont corrects! Je parle ces deux langues.
Bien a vous,
Dinis
Guest,
En ce qui concerne le francais employe' dans votre message, il n'est pas du tout correct. Veuillez me pardonner l'absence d'accents; le clavier de mon ordinateur n'en possede pas. J'ai tire' la liste des mots du livre EuroComRom- Les sept tamis : lire les langues romanes des le depart qui a ete' traduit par un commite' de traducteurs europeens. Quant aux mots espagnols et francais de la liste je sais personellement qu'il sont corrects! Je parle ces deux langues.
Bien a vous,
Dinis
En ce qui concerne le francais employe' dans votre message, il n'est pas du tout correct. Veuillez me pardonner l'absence d'accents; le clavier de mon ordinateur n'en possede pas. J'ai tire' la liste des mots du livre EuroComRom- Les sept tamis : lire les langues romanes des le depart qui a ete' traduit par un commite' de traducteurs europeens. Quant aux mots espagnols et francais de la liste je sais personellement qu'il sont corrects! Je parle ces deux langues.
Bien a vous,
Dinis
To this day, Portuguese also remains very close to Latin. Many Portuguese words end with the letter 'm', as in Latin.
Civis Romanus Sum;
Spanish and Italian both 'show' some similarities to Latin (more or less) like your demostration depicted it. All romance languages have something MORE or LESS of CLASSICAL OR VULGAR LATIN. The only language closer to Latin is Latin itself, as Luis Zalot mentioned it.
SPANISH
Conjugation of hacer (old spanish; facer still apllied in some regions.)
Note: Other verbs following this pattern are deshacer and satisfacer.
Infinitive (infinitivo) hacer
Gerund (gerundio) haciendo
Participle (participio) hecho
Present indicative
(presente del indicativo) yo hago, tú haces, usted/él/ella hace, nosotros/as hacemos, vosotros/as hacéis, ustedes/ellos/ellas hacen
Preterite (pretérito)
yo hice, tu hiciste, usted/él/ella hizo, nosotros/as hicimos, vosotros/as hicisteis, ustedes/ellos/ellas hicieron
Imperfect indicativo
(imperfecto del indicativo) y
o hacía, tú hacías, usted/él/ella hacía, nosotros/as hacíamos, vosotros/as hacíais, ustedes/ellos/ellas hacían
Future (futuro) yo haré, tú harás, usted/él/ella hará, nosotros/as haremos, vosotros/as hacéis, ustedes/ellos/ellas harán
Conditional (condicional)
yo haría, tú harías, usted/él/ella haría, nosotros/as haríamos, vosotros/as haríais, ustedes/ellos/ellas harían
Present subjunctive
(presente del subjuntivo)
que yo haga, que tú hagas, que usted/él/ella haga, que nosotros/as hagamos, que vosotros/as hagáis, que ustedes/ellos/ellas hagan
Imperfect subjunctive
(imperfecto del subjuntivo)
que yo hiciera (hiciese), que tú hicieras (hacieses), que usted/él/ella hiciera (hiciese), que nosotros/as hiciéramos (hiciésemos), que vosotros/as hicierais (hicieseis), que ustedes/ellos/ellas hicieran (hiciesen)
Imperative
(imperativo)
haz (tú), no hagas (tú), haga usted, hagamos (nosotros/as), haced (vosotros/as), no hagáis (vosotros/as), hagan ustedes
Spanish and Italian both 'show' some similarities to Latin (more or less) like your demostration depicted it. All romance languages have something MORE or LESS of CLASSICAL OR VULGAR LATIN. The only language closer to Latin is Latin itself, as Luis Zalot mentioned it.
SPANISH
Conjugation of hacer (old spanish; facer still apllied in some regions.)
Note: Other verbs following this pattern are deshacer and satisfacer.
Infinitive (infinitivo) hacer
Gerund (gerundio) haciendo
Participle (participio) hecho
Present indicative
(presente del indicativo) yo hago, tú haces, usted/él/ella hace, nosotros/as hacemos, vosotros/as hacéis, ustedes/ellos/ellas hacen
Preterite (pretérito)
yo hice, tu hiciste, usted/él/ella hizo, nosotros/as hicimos, vosotros/as hicisteis, ustedes/ellos/ellas hicieron
Imperfect indicativo
(imperfecto del indicativo) y
o hacía, tú hacías, usted/él/ella hacía, nosotros/as hacíamos, vosotros/as hacíais, ustedes/ellos/ellas hacían
Future (futuro) yo haré, tú harás, usted/él/ella hará, nosotros/as haremos, vosotros/as hacéis, ustedes/ellos/ellas harán
Conditional (condicional)
yo haría, tú harías, usted/él/ella haría, nosotros/as haríamos, vosotros/as haríais, ustedes/ellos/ellas harían
Present subjunctive
(presente del subjuntivo)
que yo haga, que tú hagas, que usted/él/ella haga, que nosotros/as hagamos, que vosotros/as hagáis, que ustedes/ellos/ellas hagan
Imperfect subjunctive
(imperfecto del subjuntivo)
que yo hiciera (hiciese), que tú hicieras (hacieses), que usted/él/ella hiciera (hiciese), que nosotros/as hiciéramos (hiciésemos), que vosotros/as hicierais (hicieseis), que ustedes/ellos/ellas hicieran (hiciesen)
Imperative
(imperativo)
haz (tú), no hagas (tú), haga usted, hagamos (nosotros/as), haced (vosotros/as), no hagáis (vosotros/as), hagan ustedes
Civis romanus sum is right.
As i always explained, italian is still an hypotactic language,
just look the uses of subjunctive, the presence of the consecutio temporum, the strong participial sentences.
Tempo permettente it
Tempore permittente cl lat
As i always explained, italian is still an hypotactic language,
just look the uses of subjunctive, the presence of the consecutio temporum, the strong participial sentences.
Tempo permettente it
Tempore permittente cl lat
FALSE FRIEND
SPANISH-------------------------------- PORTUGUESE
segundo (second)----------------------segundo (according to)
ano (anus)------------------------------ano (year)
dos (two)------------------------------- dos (of the)
gordura (fatness)------ ----------------gordura (grease)
vale ( receipt, bill)--------------------- vale (valley)
vacia (empty)------------ ---------------bacia (bowl)
chumbo (prickly pear)-------------------chumbo ( lead)
pela (peeling)----------------------------pela (por + a)
faz (face)----------------- ---------------faz (fazer verb)
criaran (bring up verb)------------------criaram (to create )
no (no)-----------------------------------no (em + o)
aceitando (oil verb)-------- ------------aceitando ( accept verb)
criador (breeder)------------------------criador (creator)
desenvolvieran ( unwrap verb)------- desenvolveram (to develop )
colarse (sneak in verb)---------------- colar-se (to glue )
dislocamiento (dislocation)----------- deslocamento (displacement)
meados (piss)-------------------------- meados (middle of)
risco (cliff)-------------------------------risco (risk)
descubierta (open, exposed)----------descoberta (discovery)
fechado (dating, date verb)-----------fechado (close)
polvo (dust)-----------------------------polvo (octopus)
vaso (glass)----------------------------- vaso (artery)
zurdo (left-handed)--------------------surdo (deaf)
taller (workshop)-----------------------talher (to cut)
borracha (drunk)------------------------borracha (rubber)
faro (headlight)-------------------------faro (premonition)
escoba (broom)-------------------------escoba (to sweep?
oso (bear)-------------------------------osso (bone)
garrafa (demijohn)---------------------garrafa (bottle)
SPANISH-------------------------------- PORTUGUESE
segundo (second)----------------------segundo (according to)
ano (anus)------------------------------ano (year)
dos (two)------------------------------- dos (of the)
gordura (fatness)------ ----------------gordura (grease)
vale ( receipt, bill)--------------------- vale (valley)
vacia (empty)------------ ---------------bacia (bowl)
chumbo (prickly pear)-------------------chumbo ( lead)
pela (peeling)----------------------------pela (por + a)
faz (face)----------------- ---------------faz (fazer verb)
criaran (bring up verb)------------------criaram (to create )
no (no)-----------------------------------no (em + o)
aceitando (oil verb)-------- ------------aceitando ( accept verb)
criador (breeder)------------------------criador (creator)
desenvolvieran ( unwrap verb)------- desenvolveram (to develop )
colarse (sneak in verb)---------------- colar-se (to glue )
dislocamiento (dislocation)----------- deslocamento (displacement)
meados (piss)-------------------------- meados (middle of)
risco (cliff)-------------------------------risco (risk)
descubierta (open, exposed)----------descoberta (discovery)
fechado (dating, date verb)-----------fechado (close)
polvo (dust)-----------------------------polvo (octopus)
vaso (glass)----------------------------- vaso (artery)
zurdo (left-handed)--------------------surdo (deaf)
taller (workshop)-----------------------talher (to cut)
borracha (drunk)------------------------borracha (rubber)
faro (headlight)-------------------------faro (premonition)
escoba (broom)-------------------------escoba (to sweep?
oso (bear)-------------------------------osso (bone)
garrafa (demijohn)---------------------garrafa (bottle)
Civis Romanus Sum :
« If you further analize Spanish and Italian with respect to Latin you will find that they are with Sardianian the closest languages to Latin but Italian and Sardinian are the closest. I read that lexicon divergence from Latin is (numbers very common on the internet):
8% sard
12% it
20% sp
(40% fr, per tutti i francofili che credono il francese essere li primo discendente dal latino....) »
Ces chiffres sont une tarte à la crème : ils reviennent périodiquement et illustrent parfaitement •••••••••L'IGNORANCE••••••••• de ceux qui les emploient sans savoir ce qu'ils signifient.
Voici le texte •••••••••INTÉGRAL••••••••• : http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langues_romanes
« L'on peut donner ici les résultats d'une étude menée par M. Pei en 1949, qui a comparé le degré d'évolution de diverses langues par rapport à leur langue-mère ; pour les langues romanes les plus importantes, SI L'ON NE CONSIDÈRE •••••••••QUE LES VOYELLE TONIQUES•••••••••, l'on obtient, par rapport au latin, les coefficients d'évolution suivants :
sarde : 8 % ;
italien : 12 % ;
castillan : 20 % ;
roumain : 23,5 % ;
occitan : 25 % ;
portugais : 31 % ;
français : 44 %.
L'on voit ainsi facilement le degré variable de conservatisme des langues romanes, la plus proche du latin phonétiquement (EN NE CONSIDÉRANT •••••••••QUE LES VOYELLES TONIQUES•••••••••) étant le sarde, la plus éloignée le français. »
« If you further analize Spanish and Italian with respect to Latin you will find that they are with Sardianian the closest languages to Latin but Italian and Sardinian are the closest. I read that lexicon divergence from Latin is (numbers very common on the internet):
8% sard
12% it
20% sp
(40% fr, per tutti i francofili che credono il francese essere li primo discendente dal latino....) »
Ces chiffres sont une tarte à la crème : ils reviennent périodiquement et illustrent parfaitement •••••••••L'IGNORANCE••••••••• de ceux qui les emploient sans savoir ce qu'ils signifient.
Voici le texte •••••••••INTÉGRAL••••••••• : http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langues_romanes
« L'on peut donner ici les résultats d'une étude menée par M. Pei en 1949, qui a comparé le degré d'évolution de diverses langues par rapport à leur langue-mère ; pour les langues romanes les plus importantes, SI L'ON NE CONSIDÈRE •••••••••QUE LES VOYELLE TONIQUES•••••••••, l'on obtient, par rapport au latin, les coefficients d'évolution suivants :
sarde : 8 % ;
italien : 12 % ;
castillan : 20 % ;
roumain : 23,5 % ;
occitan : 25 % ;
portugais : 31 % ;
français : 44 %.
L'on voit ainsi facilement le degré variable de conservatisme des langues romanes, la plus proche du latin phonétiquement (EN NE CONSIDÉRANT •••••••••QUE LES VOYELLES TONIQUES•••••••••) étant le sarde, la plus éloignée le français. »
Great Greg!
I didn't find the link, thanks!
So now my proofs are more considerable!
Do you know what are "LE voyelles toniques" ?
At this point I don't think so.
Periodical review?: would you want to say that if we did an analysis in the 2006 we would find different divergence from Latin ?
Perhaps
It,Sp 44% and fr 1% ????????????
Your sense of grandeur is so strong that maybe you will never admit a FACT: the french is a beatiful language of great culture, but is the most divergent from Latin in lexicon, spelling and pronounciation!
Do you know english, why don't you write in english?
No other comment by my side
I didn't find the link, thanks!
So now my proofs are more considerable!
Do you know what are "LE voyelles toniques" ?
At this point I don't think so.
Periodical review?: would you want to say that if we did an analysis in the 2006 we would find different divergence from Latin ?
Perhaps
It,Sp 44% and fr 1% ????????????
Your sense of grandeur is so strong that maybe you will never admit a FACT: the french is a beatiful language of great culture, but is the most divergent from Latin in lexicon, spelling and pronounciation!
Do you know english, why don't you write in english?
No other comment by my side
Sorry SPQR
but italian is a sintactic language, as latin: long period and a lot of subordinate clauses
Hypotactic means short and simple periods
but italian is a sintactic language, as latin: long period and a lot of subordinate clauses
Hypotactic means short and simple periods
Silentium idiote!"
Hypotactic language means that uses extensively subordination
Hypotactic language means that uses extensively subordination