"And Portuguese is just Portuguese". I understand what you're saying. Portuguese sounds nice, very sensual, but I don't put much effort into studying it since it is so close to Spanish. To me, Portuguese is Spanish with a French accent.
Spanish is the most beautiful of all languages
The vowel endings in Span., Ital., and Port. give the languages a special sing-song effect, which makes these languages sound very pleasant to hear. Some people like to disparage these languages, saying that they are too "BIMBO". Someone who would say such a thing only means that he is an ignoramus.
I agree completely APAM. The vowel endings do indeed give it a special, beautiful rythm, and they sound more authentically Latin when they have this characteristic. Whereas French has flat endings, like Germanic languages. And for the most part, I also agree with your comments on Portuguese. Besides, there's not a whole lot of incentive to learn Portuguese when you are in the U.S.
LAA, welcome back. True, there isn't a lot of incentive to learn Portuguese when you are in the U.S. But, not only that, Portuguese can almost be considered a Spanish dialect. If I'm going to study one of the two languages, it's definitely going to be Spanish. I'm not badmouthing Portuguese, it's a beautiful language. I think that if you speak Spanish or Italian, you can learn Portuguese in about one month.
««Besides, there's not a whole lot of incentive to learn Portuguese when you are in the U.S. »»
There was not a whole lot of incentive to learn Castilian a few years ago. The number of Castilian speakers in the USA is very high. Today you most probably need to learn Castilian to be able to speak with the big Castilian speaking community
««But, not only that, Portuguese can almost be considered a Spanish dialect.»»
Really? Almost? And how is that? To be almost a Spanish dialect Portuguese needed to have been born after the Spanish (Castilian) language.
And it is the Spanish language (Castilian) that was born after the Portuguese. Unless you can tell us what makes you think that Castilian is older.
If we say that "Spanish can almost be considered a Portuguese dialect" it would look more correct. Don't you think so?
««I think that if you speak Spanish or Italian, you can learn Portuguese in about one month.»»
These comments always bring a smile to my face. Don´t you think that if it was true Spaniards and Italians would be bilingual? Who would not spend a month to learn another language in school? And all Portuguese would speak Spanish and Italian?
If you know Castilian it is easier to learn Portuguese but if you learn Portuguese is even easier to learn Castilian, but it takes a lot longer than one month to master the other language. Of course unless you are a genius.
There was not a whole lot of incentive to learn Castilian a few years ago. The number of Castilian speakers in the USA is very high. Today you most probably need to learn Castilian to be able to speak with the big Castilian speaking community
««But, not only that, Portuguese can almost be considered a Spanish dialect.»»
Really? Almost? And how is that? To be almost a Spanish dialect Portuguese needed to have been born after the Spanish (Castilian) language.
And it is the Spanish language (Castilian) that was born after the Portuguese. Unless you can tell us what makes you think that Castilian is older.
If we say that "Spanish can almost be considered a Portuguese dialect" it would look more correct. Don't you think so?
««I think that if you speak Spanish or Italian, you can learn Portuguese in about one month.»»
These comments always bring a smile to my face. Don´t you think that if it was true Spaniards and Italians would be bilingual? Who would not spend a month to learn another language in school? And all Portuguese would speak Spanish and Italian?
If you know Castilian it is easier to learn Portuguese but if you learn Portuguese is even easier to learn Castilian, but it takes a lot longer than one month to master the other language. Of course unless you are a genius.
If you are a Spanish speaker, I imagine it would take about a month to learn to effectively speak Portuguese at a basic, elementary level. But after a month, could you debate politics in Portuguese? I don't think so. The fact is Gringo, you are a nation of what? Ten million people or so? Nobody really cares about Portuguese when compared to Spanish. For us, in the U.S., Spanish is very important as it is spoken by a sizeable minority here. And nearly all of our nearest neighbors are Spanish speaking countries.
««If you are a Spanish speaker, I imagine it would take about a month to learn to effectively speak Portuguese at a basic, elementary level.»»
A basic elementary level is what we call Portunhol.
««The fact is Gringo, you are a nation of what? Ten million people or so? »»
Ten million people or so...You think Portuguese is only spoken in Portugal? That would mean Castilian is only spoken in Spain.
««Nobody really cares about Portuguese when compared to Spanish. »»
Is that why there is always someone that likes to imply that Portuguese is almost like a dialect of Spanish?
Aren't there other languages that could be called a dialect of Spanish other than Portuguese? Yes, but they have so little speakers you don't even mention them.
«« For us, in the U.S., Spanish is very important as it is spoken by a sizeable minority here. »»
Being important or not, it does not make Castilian older than Portuguese. And you always speak Castilian with a Castilian speaker and Portuguese with a Portuguese speaker, like it or not. So in the end it all depend with who you are going to speak.
A basic elementary level is what we call Portunhol.
««The fact is Gringo, you are a nation of what? Ten million people or so? »»
Ten million people or so...You think Portuguese is only spoken in Portugal? That would mean Castilian is only spoken in Spain.
««Nobody really cares about Portuguese when compared to Spanish. »»
Is that why there is always someone that likes to imply that Portuguese is almost like a dialect of Spanish?
Aren't there other languages that could be called a dialect of Spanish other than Portuguese? Yes, but they have so little speakers you don't even mention them.
«« For us, in the U.S., Spanish is very important as it is spoken by a sizeable minority here. »»
Being important or not, it does not make Castilian older than Portuguese. And you always speak Castilian with a Castilian speaker and Portuguese with a Portuguese speaker, like it or not. So in the end it all depend with who you are going to speak.
LAA
The world isn't the US in case you havn't looked at the globel press.
The world isn't the US in case you havn't looked at the globel press.
Yes, but what matters is its relevance to me and my world. The fact is, I seldom come accross a Portuguese speaker, while I interact with Spanish speakers every day. The only other major country which speaks Portuguese is Brazil. There are nearly four times as many Spanish speakers than there are Portuguese speakers in Europe, and there are several more countries in Latin America that speak Spanish, vs. only one country that speaks Portuguese. So, when compared to Spanish, yes, Portuguese is not that significant.
««Yes, but what matters is its relevance to me and my world. »»
This is one of the silliest comments I ever heard, kind of comment only spoiled brats do.
I am sorry to be the one to inform you but the world does not rotate around your belly button.
««There are nearly four times as many Spanish speakers than there are Portuguese speakers in Europe, and there are several more countries in Latin America that speak Spanish, vs. only one country that speaks Portuguese.»»
Only one country that speaks Portuguese in Latin America? But the biggest and most populous country (forgot that?). In Europe there is also only one country that speaks Castilian. That makes, in Europe, as many Castilian speaking countries as Portuguese. Forgot to count?
According to your logic English is also not important because it is spoken only by two countries in North America.
If we count the native speakers, Portuguese is the six most spoken language in the world and the most spoken language in South America.
And let us not forget Africa where Portuguese is the official language of Angola, Cape Verde, Guinea-Bissau, Mozambique, São Tomé and Príncipe. And Asia where it is co-official with Chinese in Macau and Tetum in East Timor.
It seems your world is a very small one.
This is one of the silliest comments I ever heard, kind of comment only spoiled brats do.
I am sorry to be the one to inform you but the world does not rotate around your belly button.
««There are nearly four times as many Spanish speakers than there are Portuguese speakers in Europe, and there are several more countries in Latin America that speak Spanish, vs. only one country that speaks Portuguese.»»
Only one country that speaks Portuguese in Latin America? But the biggest and most populous country (forgot that?). In Europe there is also only one country that speaks Castilian. That makes, in Europe, as many Castilian speaking countries as Portuguese. Forgot to count?
According to your logic English is also not important because it is spoken only by two countries in North America.
If we count the native speakers, Portuguese is the six most spoken language in the world and the most spoken language in South America.
And let us not forget Africa where Portuguese is the official language of Angola, Cape Verde, Guinea-Bissau, Mozambique, São Tomé and Príncipe. And Asia where it is co-official with Chinese in Macau and Tetum in East Timor.
It seems your world is a very small one.
««The fact is, I seldom come accross a Portuguese speaker, while I interact with Spanish speakers every day.»»
Oh! I also find more Romanian speakers than Spanish speakers that makes Romanian more important than Castilian.
I am sure that, following your line of thought, even Mirandese is more important than Castilian.
Oh! I also find more Romanian speakers than Spanish speakers that makes Romanian more important than Castilian.
I am sure that, following your line of thought, even Mirandese is more important than Castilian.
LAA : « The vowel endings do indeed give it a special, beautiful rythm, and they sound more authentically Latin when they have this characteristic. »
Bien sûr ! Et des mots tels que <dominum>, <rosis>, <ager>, <corporibus>, <cornus>, <quod>, <urbs>, <miseros>, <fers>, <amabam>, <amabimur> etc n'ont rien d'authentiquement latin, c'est bien connu !
LAA : « Whereas French has flat endings, like Germanic languages. »
Tout à fait ! (sarcasme) Surtout dans des mots comme <aimé>, <tombé>, <mangé> etc.
Bien sûr ! Et des mots tels que <dominum>, <rosis>, <ager>, <corporibus>, <cornus>, <quod>, <urbs>, <miseros>, <fers>, <amabam>, <amabimur> etc n'ont rien d'authentiquement latin, c'est bien connu !
LAA : « Whereas French has flat endings, like Germanic languages. »
Tout à fait ! (sarcasme) Surtout dans des mots comme <aimé>, <tombé>, <mangé> etc.
We don't give a damn about Portugal. We like Spanish language
and it is now obligatory to study Spanish in our high schools.
Portuguese people can cry, but we like Spanish language and Latin culture.
MTV Latina and Argentinian Much Music are one of the best tv channels we can watch in Brazil. And Mexican band Rebelde is having such a success in Brazil any Portuguese band can only dream of. Portugal is our distant past, Latin America is our present and future.
Muchos besos desde Rio Grande do Sul, Brasil
and it is now obligatory to study Spanish in our high schools.
Portuguese people can cry, but we like Spanish language and Latin culture.
MTV Latina and Argentinian Much Music are one of the best tv channels we can watch in Brazil. And Mexican band Rebelde is having such a success in Brazil any Portuguese band can only dream of. Portugal is our distant past, Latin America is our present and future.
Muchos besos desde Rio Grande do Sul, Brasil
" Portuguese people can cry, but we like Spanish language and Latin culture. "
Senhorita, You like latin culture? but which one ? Portuguese culture is a much a latin culture than Spanich one !
LAA,
"The vowel endings do indeed give it a special, beautiful rythm, and they sound more authentically Latin when they have this characteristic."
as Greg has rightfully noticed, the authentic latin endings are quite far from the "o/a" endings you are speaking about.
latin endings would be more like "...us, ..en, ...ium, ...alis, ...at, ...et, ...uit, ...imus, ...ac, ...xit, etc."
I suppose those authentic latin words would sound "germanic" for you!
outside of these considerations, compared to Italian spanish has much less vowel endings : some ex of the same words in both languages :
- verbs in "...are/ere" are in "ar/er" in spanish
- "milla/mille" (thousand), in spanish is just "mil"
- "suo/sua" in spanish it give just "su"
- all words in "...ale", in spanish are just in "...al"
- all words in "...zione", in spanish are just in "...cion"
- all words in "...are", in spanish are just "...ar"
- all words in "...ta", in spanish are with consonant ends "...dad"
- all words in "...ore", in spanish are just "...or"
- all words in "..ane", in spanish are just "...an"
- words like "lapiz, super, lugar, mar, Madrid, jamas, joven, vivaz, pan, gran, pais, avion, fin, aun, boletin, diez, etc.
- plural in italian is made with vowel ends (i,e), while in spanish is it consonant "s".
As fro french being made of "hard consonant ending", it is true in the writen form, but the last consonant is generally not pronounced, so most words are vowel ending. curiously the french words which end with a vowel (genrally a "e") have sound consonant ending.
Senhorita, You like latin culture? but which one ? Portuguese culture is a much a latin culture than Spanich one !
LAA,
"The vowel endings do indeed give it a special, beautiful rythm, and they sound more authentically Latin when they have this characteristic."
as Greg has rightfully noticed, the authentic latin endings are quite far from the "o/a" endings you are speaking about.
latin endings would be more like "...us, ..en, ...ium, ...alis, ...at, ...et, ...uit, ...imus, ...ac, ...xit, etc."
I suppose those authentic latin words would sound "germanic" for you!
outside of these considerations, compared to Italian spanish has much less vowel endings : some ex of the same words in both languages :
- verbs in "...are/ere" are in "ar/er" in spanish
- "milla/mille" (thousand), in spanish is just "mil"
- "suo/sua" in spanish it give just "su"
- all words in "...ale", in spanish are just in "...al"
- all words in "...zione", in spanish are just in "...cion"
- all words in "...are", in spanish are just "...ar"
- all words in "...ta", in spanish are with consonant ends "...dad"
- all words in "...ore", in spanish are just "...or"
- all words in "..ane", in spanish are just "...an"
- words like "lapiz, super, lugar, mar, Madrid, jamas, joven, vivaz, pan, gran, pais, avion, fin, aun, boletin, diez, etc.
- plural in italian is made with vowel ends (i,e), while in spanish is it consonant "s".
As fro french being made of "hard consonant ending", it is true in the writen form, but the last consonant is generally not pronounced, so most words are vowel ending. curiously the french words which end with a vowel (genrally a "e") have sound consonant ending.
<<Portuguese people can cry, but we like Spanish language and Latin culture>>
How interesting! Portuguese is not Latin? It is what? German culture?
<<it is now obligatory to study Spanish in our high schools.>>
Yes, I heard one month is enough to learn Spanish. The same for a Spanish speaker to learn Portuguese.
If I remember well,Latin American Spanish speaking countries are also teaching Portuguese.
<<MTV Latina and Argentinian Much Music are one of the best tv channels we can watch in Brazil>>
Have you got an idea of what is the percentage of the population that can afford a paid channel?
I was wondering how long it would take for a troll to pose as a Brazilian.
How interesting! Portuguese is not Latin? It is what? German culture?
<<it is now obligatory to study Spanish in our high schools.>>
Yes, I heard one month is enough to learn Spanish. The same for a Spanish speaker to learn Portuguese.
If I remember well,Latin American Spanish speaking countries are also teaching Portuguese.
<<MTV Latina and Argentinian Much Music are one of the best tv channels we can watch in Brazil>>
Have you got an idea of what is the percentage of the population that can afford a paid channel?
I was wondering how long it would take for a troll to pose as a Brazilian.