Relationship between Danish and Dutch

Scheiße ja.... ik heb het vergeten den woord te schrijven.... maar Sander, ik late me gern van je korregeeren, alleen zo kan man ja leren!!! danks!!!

Den woord is "maar", niet in de beduiding van "but" of van duits "mal". Ik geloof dat het draait zich om een modal partikel in veele gevalen...

>>ik heb het vergeten den woord te schrijven.... maar Sander, ik late me gern van je korregeeren, alleen zo kan man ja leren!!! danks!!!

Den woord is "maar", niet in de beduiding van "but" of van duits "mal". Ik geloof dat het draait zich om een modal partikel in veele gevalen... <<

Ik ben vergeten het woord te schrijven, maar Sander ik laat me graag door jou verbeteren, alleen zo kan men leren.Bedankt.

Het woord is "maar", niet in de zin van "but" of het Duitse "mal". Ik geloof dat het hier in de meeste gevallen om een bijwoord gaat.


You're having problems with "maar" in the sense other than "but".
Okay, maar can meen many things.

to express a wish (had ik maar = I wish I had)
continuously (als maar = continuously)

In Dutch "maar" can be a grammatical conjunction or an adverb.

Sander, heb jij een kijkje naar deze twee onlangs uitgegeven woordenboeken genomen:

http://www.vandale.nl/producten/1001004002730819

http://www.vandale.nl/producten/1001004002730820

Er is een voorbeeld van de eerstgenoemde, maar geen voor de laatstgenoemde. Als jij de inhoud van de Nederlands-->Engels versie hebt gezien, herinner jij je of hij meervouden, verbuigingen van onregelmatige bijvoeglijke naamwoorden, en/of een lijst van vervoegingen had?

HT, every Dutch made dictionary, has an overview of Dutch grammar (or in the case of the Dutch-English dictionary, English grammar) in the back of the book.

Btw, did you use a diactionary for those Dutch grammatical terms?

Maybe, but I wanted to know if the usual word entry resembles the following:

(for nouns)
het ei, -eren: egg
de pet, -ten: cap

(for adjectives)
druk, -ke: busy; lively
wit, -te: white

(for verbs)
weten, weet, wist(en), geweten: to know, knows, knew, known

Since I'm a novice, yes, I'm consulting the Routledge dictionary.

ei would be:

ei (o) [eieren]
*the 'o' means it's onzijdig, neuter.

druk and drukte have a separate entry. You would find "druk" not '' drukke'' as "drukke" is just an inflected form of druk.

Brennus, this discussion is still about languages, and as long as there are threads that aren't about language and as long as you refuse to implement forum rules, this disccusion will go as it goes.

--- Sander
Regular visitor

Hi Sander,

I was listening Radio Nederlands this week, and reading more in Dutch, so I am starting to understand a minimal part of what they are saying in the radio. Anyway, I come to you with two questions, which perhaps have already been discussed here before.

I have this feeling when listening Dutch, that they pronounce the "r" neither as a German "r" nor as the Spanish one. It is just that I can't help this Dutch "r" remainding me the English "r", not exactly, though. I have asked this to several Germans, and they mostly agree with me. The same for the way the Dutch "L" sounds very English to my ears. Is it all my imagination or is it true? I am confused because I have never found a description of this letters which fit into my way of perceiving them.

The other question is about the -n dropping. I have read in several sites that this is a standard pronuntiation issue in Dutch. You told me that you didn't do that, unlease you speak very fast. But after what I heard in the radio, all people pronounced the -en like schwa, whitout the -n sound. Is it then a standard pronountiation or it isn't?

Hi again Sander,

Good, that you haven't answered yet, because after I wrote my last post I listened more Dutch and payed attention more carefully. I *think*, that this English similar "R" comes only:

-at the end of a syllable: eRvan, NedeRland, weReld.. etc..
-at the end of a word: maaR, meeR, hooR, weeR.. etc..

Otherwise I do hear this alternance between the Spanish-like and German-like "R": Radio, pRoberen, omRoep, pRogRamma.. etc..

Am I listening right, or is it my immagination again? :)

btw, the more I listen Dutch, the more I like it.

>>In Dutch "maar" can be a grammatical conjunction or an adverb.

Heb je voorbeelden ervan?

(heb je daar voorbeelden van)

grammatical conjunction:

Appels zijn meestal rood MAAR dit hoeft niet.
~Apples are usually red but they don't have to be.~
Adverb:
Maar?
~But?~

Oh and about Dutch r's.

In modern Dutch, quite a few different R-sounds are used. In Belgium, the usual R is an alveolar trill, but uvular R does occur, mostly in the province of Limburg in the region around Ghent and in Brussels. In the Netherlands, uvular R is the dominant R-sound in the southern provinces of North Brabant and Limburg. In the rest of the country, the situation is more complicated. Uvular R is common, but not dominant, in the western agglomeration Randstad, including cities like Rotterdam, The Hague and Utrecht (the dialect of Amsterdam usually has an alveolar R though). Uvular R is also used in some major cities outside of the Randstad area, such as Zwolle, Almelo and Leeuwarden. Outside of these uvular R core areas, alveolar trill is common.

Thanks Sander,

Heb je voorbeelden ervan?
heb je daar voorbeelden van

I have seen both constructions quite often in written Dutch. If both (ervan and daar... van) are equivalents to German "davon", in German the first construction is preferred in written German, and the second is mostly spoken language, but they mean just the same.
But as you corrected me, they probably mean different things in Dutch. Can you please tell what is the difference?

Your explanation about maar, was again with the meaining of "but", which I already knew; but if there is not other meanings than German "aber" and "mal", then perhaps I was just wrong.

>to express a wish (had ik maar = I wish I had)
or, closer: If I ONLY had.... (right or wrong?)

>continuously (als maar = continuously)
Have you an example?

Dutch R's: well, I knew about the alveolar thrill and uvular R alternance depending on the region. I understand that. It's exactly the same in German.

My question was about a third sound, namely a very close to the English R (sorry if I can not define the technical name more properly, but I haven't had so much contact with spoken Dutch either....) so, if you read my posting again, would you agree with it or am I listening wrong?

tot later

>> But as you corrected me, they probably mean different things in Dutch. Can you please tell what is the difference? <<

Well there's not much to explain only that "Heb je voorbeelden ervan?" is not possible in Dutch, I'm afraid I can't explain why.

Sander,

Is this true? is the phonology of Dutch changing so fast?

>De uitspraak van de drie Nederlandse diftongen ei, ui en ou, die eeuwenlang constant gebleven was, is nu in hoog tempo aan het veranderen in de richting van aai, ou en aau: klaain maar faain, vraauwen, houswerk. Deze door Stroop 'Poldernederlands' gedoopte verandering is het eerst waargenomen bij wat oudere goedopgeleide vrouwen uit de hogere middenklasse: o.a. vrouwen werkzaam aan de universiteit, in de politiek, als kunstenaar of schrijfster. Ondertussen wordt het verschijnsel in hoog tempo algemener, het meest nog onder vrouwen, maar het is nu ook steeds vaker bij mannen te horen. Kinderen uit alle milieus, die jonger zijn dan tien jaar, doen er vrijwel allemaal aan mee.

If so, it's quite a pity, because I love the way this diphthongs (including ij, of course) sound nowadays in standard Dutch!!!.... :-)

Question of the week:
How do you express present continuous and gerundium in Dutch?

I am playing (right now) football
I am learning (from two years ago till today) Chinese
I have been reparing my car the whole day
I was learning Chinese from 2002 to 2004

From what I've learned...

"zijn + aan het + infinitive" can be used for the first sentence:

Ik ben voetbal aan het spelen.

The second sentence - which would be "have been learning" in English - can't be expressed in the progressive in Dutch, I believe, so the simple verb plus "al/pas" would suffice:

Ik leer Chinees al twee jaar . (If you feel that two years has been a long time.)

Ik leer Chinees pas twee jaar . (If you feel that said duration has been brief.)

The construction "liggen/staan/zitten + te + infinitive" might work for the third sentence, depending on your position:

Ik heb mijn auto de hele dag liggen repareren. (If you were sprawled across the ground as you worked.)

Ik heb mijn auto de hele dag staan repareren. (If you were standing while you fixed.)

The fourth sentence should be in the simple past tense:

Ik leerde Chinees van 2002 tot 2004.

Those are what I would suggest, anyway.