Relationship between Danish and Dutch

Arthur   Tue Aug 08, 2006 11:29 pm GMT
Hej HT,

Tak så meget!!
HT   Tue Aug 08, 2006 11:37 pm GMT
Det var så lidt.

Lad os vente alligevel på hans svar.
Arthur   Tue Aug 08, 2006 11:44 pm GMT
Ja, maar afwachten.... hij slaap nu... og drømmer vist med germanske amazoner.
Sander   Tue Aug 08, 2006 11:46 pm GMT
>> If so, it's quite a pity, because I love the way this diphthongs (including ij, of course) sound nowadays in standard Dutch!!!.... :-) <<

No, they aren't changing. What is described does happen but only applies to a very small portion of North Holland.

>>How do you express present continuous and gerundium in Dutch? <<

The present continuous, or "onvoltooid tegenwoordige tijd" in Dutch, is very simple:

I am playing (right now) football
=
Ik voetbal. ("to play football" is 1 verb in Dutch -voetballen-)

I am learning (from two years ago till today) Chinese
=
Ik leer al 2 jaar Chinees.

I have been reparing my car the whole day
=
Ik herstel mijn auto al de hele dag.

I was learning Chinese from 2002 to 2004
=
Ik leerde Chinees van 2002 tot 2004.


The gerundium or "Deelwoord bijwoordelijk gebruikt", in Dutch is also quite simple. Simply add "-(e)nd".

Example:

"While making the pie"
=
"De taart makEND"
Sander   Tue Aug 08, 2006 11:49 pm GMT
Ingen, han ikke drømmer om germanisk amazones. Han er downloading en film og ikke sover med lyden av en summende datamaskin
Arthur   Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:10 am GMT
Hoi Sander!!!.. bedankt!!

..en jammer dat je niet van germanische amazonen "träumst"... het rekener is vel niet zo romantisch, niet waar?

maar ik moet nu gaan. ik zou en beetje meer leren.
Fredrik from Norway   Wed Aug 09, 2006 7:12 am GMT
Arthur wrote:
>>If so, it's quite a pity, because I love the way this diphthongs (including ij, of course) sound nowadays in standard Dutch!!!.... :-)>>
I too! These changes sound German!!!
Travis   Wed Aug 09, 2006 7:21 am GMT
>>I too! These changes sound German!!!<<

I've noticed that too - that, for instance, "zijn" sounds identical to German "sein", even though ABN "ij" classically is not the same as standard Hochdeutsch "ei".
Sander   Wed Aug 09, 2006 9:50 am GMT
Not really...

German: z̥a͡ɪn

Dutch: zɛi n
Arthur   Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:40 pm GMT
Well,

In Austrian German (at least Oberösterreich, an Vienna zone) "ei" is pronounced different than in other German speaking areas, where the tendency is more congruent with the Highgerman rule.

Thus, this sound "ei" in Austrian German seems to be exactly the same as the (as far as I understand this sound) Dutch "ei"/"ij".
Arthur   Wed Aug 09, 2006 6:06 pm GMT
Sander, Travis, HT... what is this!!!???....

O.V.Tk.T. (Onvoltooid Verleden Toekomende Tijd) = Simple Past Future (Does not exist in English)

V.V.Tk.T. (Voltooid Verleden Toekomende Tijd) = Past Future Perfect (Does not exist in English)

Can you please give me examples of these? are thy commonly used in Dutch?

Furthermore;
O.Tk.T.: te zullen (=Present Infinitive of zullen) + Present Infinitive: te zullen spelen (would this be something like "to will play"? being the "to"(te) just explicative here but not used in any construction?)

V.Tk.T.: Past Participle + te zullen hebben or te zullen zijn (=Future Infinitive of hebben or zijn): gespeeld te zullen hebben, gegaan te zullen zijn (the same question as above)

Voltooid Toekomend Deelwoord: zullende hebben or zullende zijn (=Future Participle of hebben or zijn): gespeeld zullende hebben, gegaan zullende zijn

Again, how are they used? I mean, what do they express?
Perhaps it is not so complicated, but I am really confused here.
zxczxc   Wed Aug 09, 2006 6:45 pm GMT
Isn't simple past future just like an imperfect form of "I will have been there"?

Past future perfect... sounds confusing.
Arthur   Wed Aug 09, 2006 6:58 pm GMT
>Past future perfect... sounds confusing
Yes, this is why I would like to clear this confussion...
Travis   Wed Aug 09, 2006 10:04 pm GMT
>>Not really...

German: z̥a͡ɪn

Dutch: zɛi n<<

Classically in standard Hochdeutsch and ABN respectively, yes, they are not the same. However, it seems that there has been a sound shift in at least some Dutch lects so that "zijn" and standard Hochdeutsch "sein" become homophones, by making "ij" become /aI/ or something very close to such.
Sander   Wed Aug 09, 2006 10:13 pm GMT
I have never hear that, not even in the Eastern pockets of the country.