Lexical similarities between French-Spanish-Italian

LAA   Wed Jul 12, 2006 4:17 pm GMT
It has been often said by Francophiles on this board, that French, at least in terms of vocabulary, is actually more similar to Italian than Spanish.

I am forced to concede that in some instances, this may be the case, because of Spanish's substantial Arabic lexical element.

An every day example would be the FR-IT - Bonjour & Buongiorno
SP - Hola, or Buenos Dias (Tardes) (Noches)

FR-IT - fromage & formaggio, SP - Queso

I've heard that most of the words which differ greatly from Italian in Spanish are of Arabic origin. Aside, from this Arabic influence which makes the Iberian Romance languages more unique, Spanish is still far closer to Latin, and to Italian, then French is.

Phonologically, Spanish and Italian are very similar, so that a Spanish speaking person could effortlessly pronounce Italian, while you cannot say the same for French. Often times, the vocabulary of a given discussion can be very similar to the Italian or Spanish equivalents, but not intelligable due to phonological differences.

Take for example the Spanish and French words for country.

Sp - Pais (with the accent on the "i")
Fr - Pays (with a silent "s")

Now, in the course of an oral discussion, the French and Spanish speakers might not pick up on these very similar words, because of such drastic differences in pronounciation.

To my ear, I don't hear a strong relationship with Italian + French that I do with Italian + Spanish. But in written form, I can see how very similar the two languages are in vocabulary. Sometimes, even more so than Italian + Spanish. You wouldn't know that by listening to others speak the languages. You would have to (at least I do) read the languages in written script, to truly realize thier close relationship.
Xatufan   Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:07 pm GMT
<< An every day example would be the FR-IT - Bonjour & Buongiorno
SP - Hola, or Buenos Dias (Tardes) (Noches) >>

Yes, "jour" and "giorno" come from the Latin word "diurnus" which means daily.

"Día" comes from "dies" which is the actual Latin word for "day" (cf. Portuguese "dia")
Xatufan   Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:08 pm GMT
<< FR-IT - fromage & formaggio, SP - Queso >>

"Fromage" and "formaggio" are obviously cognates and descend from Latin (I think they are related to the word "forma".) In Latin cheese is "caseus", which is the origin of Sp. "queso" and Port. "queijo".

In both examples, it seems that Portuguese and Spanish are closer to the original Latin vocabulary.


<< Sp - Pais (with the accent on the "i")
Fr - Pays (with a silent "s") >>

The Spanish word "país" was taken from French. I think it comes from Latin "pagus" (region).
Guest   Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:22 pm GMT
Spanish obtained "buenos dias" from Latin; "bonus dies".
Xatufan   Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:34 pm GMT
I don't know, but you can see that "buenos días" is plural while "bonus dies" is singular. "Bonjour", "buongirno" and "bom dia" are all singular.
Aldvs   Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:48 pm GMT

well, not necessarily. If you look at certain names in SPANISH some* are written in the Plural sense. For Example; "Carlos & Marcos". Buenos dias is just another way of saying "bonus dies".



French   Thu Jul 13, 2006 9:48 pm GMT

"Fr - Pays (with a silent "s")"

not neessary, the silent "s" is absolutly not an obligation.
Xatufan   Fri Jul 14, 2006 2:12 am GMT
Yes, but "Carlos" and "Marcos" are not plural words, and "Carolus" and "Marcus" are not either.

This is also common in French: "temps" (< tempus), "fils" (< filius)
greg   Fri Jul 14, 2006 7:00 am GMT
LAA : « I am forced to concede that in some instances (...) ».

Son altesse est trop bonne... Non mais franchement, tu te relis parfois ?!
fab   Fri Jul 14, 2006 12:48 pm GMT
" "Fr - Pays (with a silent "s")"
not neessary, the silent "s" is absolutly not an obligation. "

El "s" tiene que ser pronounciado en Frances cuando la palabra siguiente empieza con "a,e,i,o,u". pero se pronuncia "z".
Aldvs   Fri Jul 14, 2006 1:55 pm GMT
The posting above is not mine.
El comentario anterior no es mio.
a.p.a.m.   Fri Jul 14, 2006 6:07 pm GMT
What's the big deal? Anybody who can speak or understand anyone of the main Romance Languages will easily be able to pick up and learn another Romance Language very quickly.
LAA   Fri Jul 14, 2006 9:06 pm GMT
There is no big deal. We're discussing languages because this is a language form.
greg   Sun Jul 16, 2006 5:42 am GMT
LAA : je crois que la remarque d'a.p.a.m. n'est pas si dénuée de sens qu'elle en a l'air. En ce qui te concerne LAA, si tu te mettais réellement aux langues romanes, tu parlerais avec plus de circonspection de ce qui les rapproche ou les éloigne. Et peut-être aussi tenterais-tu une incursion au-delà du trinôme français-espagnol-italien pour inclure le reste de la Romanie dans tes considérations.
LAA   Sun Jul 16, 2006 5:46 am GMT
Greg, if you are going to address me, please speak in a language I understand. I am working on my French, but I can't understand advanced French vocabulary which you speak.