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What language is easiest for Spanish Speakers to understand?
Amendment:
Arabic has also a significant impact in the English language as English has also 1000 Arabic words. The Spanish language has about 5000 Arabic words not 1200.
Unfortunately, with genetic testing, it is hard to distinguish between closely related people, like Danes and Norweigans. So, it is hard to distinguish between Visigoth DNA and Alan DNA. But you can be sure that the Alan and Vandal contribution was near to nothing, as these people were such a small percentage of the Iberian population, especially the Vandals, who soon moved onto N. Africa. But modern Iberians are about 10-12% Germanic in origin as a whole.
LAA:
Closely related people? The Alani were an Iranian tribe from the Sarmatian people, they spoke an Iranian language. But you are not totally wrong, the Alans did not make slaves, they integrated and assimilated the conquered tribes. They probably were already very mixed with the Visigoth, Suevi, Slavs and Vandals of the neighboring areas: Ammianus Marcellinus wrote: Almost all of the Alans are tall and good looking; their hair is generally blond, and their eyes are frighteningly fierce. The G Haplogroup in Iberia peninsula is thought to have come from the Alans. ««especially the Vandals, who soon moved onto N. Africa.»» You know that there were two Vandal tribes in Iberian peninsula each with its own king? The Hasding Vandals were conquered by the Suevi. The Hasding King became the king of the Siling Vandals. He run away pursued by the Suevi and Romans and went to the kingdom of the Silings where he became their king and king of the Alans that decided to follow him. It was the Siling Vandals that moved to North Africa.
Gringo,
Right, so the ones that stayed numbered less than 150,000. Which would bring their genetic contribution to about 3-5% of Iberian heritage. The Visigoths were the larger group (according to most historians). The Visigoths were to Iberia what the Franks were to Gaul. But, with all the Germanic peoples together (ie. Alans, Vandals, Suevi, Goths, etc.), they were equal to about 12-15% of the native Iberian population. So, let's be generous about the numbers of foreign conquerors relative to the Iberian natives in percentage terms, using the maximum of historical estimates: Germans - 15% Moors - 5% That leaves the other 80% as being native Iberian, along with a small percentage of Greek, Phonecian, and Italic in the south, due to colonization by these people, and Celtic/Iberian mix in the north. The Germans settled primarily in the north, so that northern Iberians would have undergone the most mixing among Germans. Celtic influence is strong in northern Iberia, as the language is influenced by Celtic phonological substratums. The customs and even music of the region bears Celtic influence, and the people themselves are partly of Celtic heritage. Portuguese and Galician are two Latin languages of Iberia that come to mind which seem to have a lot of Celtic phonological influence.
LAA, Your figure of 5000 words of Arabic origin in Spanish is very high and unconfirmed. Most sources cite that Spanish has about 1500 words of true Arabic origin - the other words are probably similar to Arabic but of another origin such as Turkish. In Portuguese it is about 1000 and in Spanish about 1500. People shouldn't put too much stock into facts and figures gleaned from Wikpedia - they should research other credible sources instead.
Some of you are getting too hung up on genetics studies. Years ago genetic studies were done on East Africans, West Africans and Swedes. The results were surprising. The DNA of the sampled East Africans was almost identical to the DNA of the Swedes who were sampled, and less similar to the DNA of the West Africans. But the East and West Africans look much, much more alike than either of them do to the Swedes, who look radically different by comparison. So much for DNA scientific studies. But people like scientific answers. The antipathy toward anything Arabic doesn't surprise me though, given the anti-muslim sentiments that pervail in the world today. And I didn't appreciate the snide remark that I must look Arabic because I either dress like and Arab, or have an Arabic name. Neither reason applies to me. But I do get asked if I am Arabic all the time. Many of my Portuguese buddies get asked that too. By the way, does anyone know that the English adopted many loanwords from the Portuguese language??? Yes, it's true. And many of the Arabic loanwords in English were borrowed directly from Portuguese and Spanish. And no one here has mentioned anything about the significant Jewish admixture in Portugual and Spain. Yes, around 1496, approx. 1/5 of the 1,000,000 population of Portugal was Jewish. And the Jewish presence in Spain was very significant too. When the Jews were expelled from Spain in 1492, Portugal took in most of the Jewish refugees, who later became the conversos in Portugal. Several thousand Jews fled Portugal to the diaspora, but most of them were forcibly converted by king Manuel, and they became the 'New Christians'. No one talks about this, but this history is true beyond a shadow of a doubt. So the Portuguese and Spanish people also received a significant Jewish admixture.
(And no one here has mentioned anything about the significant Jewish admixture in Portugual and Spain. Yes, around 1496, approx. 1/5 of the 1,000,000 population of Portugal was Jewish. And the Jewish presence in Spain was very significant too. When the Jews were expelled from Spain in 1492, Portugal took in most of the Jewish refugees, who later became the conversos in Portugal. Several thousand Jews fled Portugal to the diaspora, but most of them were forcibly converted by king Manuel, and they became the 'New Christians'. No one talks about this, but this history is true beyond a shadow of a doubt. So the Portuguese and Spanish people also received a significant Jewish admixture.)
Only after I had posted did I see that I had forgotten to mention the Jewish influance in Portugal and Spain. This is somthing that shouldn't have happend seeing until the arrivel of the Euro the two men on the 100 and 200 escudos were Jewish and not to mention the alheira which is no longer only consumed in Mirendela.
One of my ancestors was called "la judia", because supposedly she had a "jewish" look.
Francisco :
««Your figure of 5000 words of Arabic origin in Spanish is very high and unconfirmed. Most sources cite that Spanish has about 1500 words of true Arabic origin - the other words are probably similar to Arabic but of another origin such as Turkish. In Portuguese it is about 1000 and in Spanish about 1500. People shouldn't put too much stock into facts and figures gleaned from Wikpedia - they should research other credible sources instead»» I suppose that you consider works presented in the Instituto Cervantes reliable enough: “el árabe dejó sus huellas en la lengua española con una cifra aproximada a más de 4000 palabras de origen árabe,” http://www.galeon.com/documenthedi/aficiones1262908.html The estimate is in most studies between 4000 and 5000 Arabic words. As I said in other previous posts the Arabic vocabulary enriched the Portuguese and Spanish language. If I am not going to consider the Castilian words that are only for literary use I can not consider the Portuguese words that are also only for literary use. That way Portuguese has a lot less than 1000 words of arabic origin. ««And I didn't appreciate the snide remark that I must look Arabic because I either dress like and Arab, or have an Arabic name. Neither reason applies to me. But I do get asked if I am Arabic all the time. Many of my Portuguese buddies get asked that too.»» So I should conclude that your buddies are the Portuguese population from Lisbon to the Algarve: ««Portuguese people from Lisbon, and south to the Algarve, (which itself means 'the country of the west' derived from the Arabic 'Al-Gharb) are often mistaken for Arabs (or middle-eastern) when they travel abroad. I myself am often mistaken for Arabic.»» ««The Arabs left their imprint on the languages of Iberia, and in the form of some cultural traits, clothing styles, and architecture, which all influenced Iberian ways of life.»» Clothing style? Not in Portugal, today no one dresses with Arab style clothes. And for that matter I never saw any Spaniard dressed that way.
Joey:
««Yes, around 1496, approx. 1/5 of the 1,000,000 population of Portugal was Jewish. »» These figures are the sum of Portuguese Jews and Spanish Jews refugees in Portugal. «« When the Jews were expelled from Spain in 1492, Portugal took in most of the Jewish refugees, who later became the conversos in Portugal.»» The Jews were also expelled from Portugal at least they were supposed to be. Those who did not make it in time became the conversos. The Judeo-Portuguese language was spoken and written before the sixteenth century the texts were written with Hebrew letters or with Latin letters: "Pera fazer o oro de (sic) musico con que escrevas, toma jubiter e fujativo e sal armenico e enxofre isento de o como de otro. E fundi-lo-as na colhar de fer(r)o grande o jubiter, e deitaras en cima o fujativo. E meçe-la-as (fol 2 b) to.o mui bien con pao e deita-lo-as quente (ms. quento) no almofaris... sobre os poo do sal armenico e do ensofre." [O livro de como se fazem as cores]
Gringo....
««The Arabs left their imprint on the languages of Iberia, and in the form of some cultural traits, clothing styles, and architecture, which all influenced Iberian ways of life.»» This is not my quote. My Portuguese friends are fromLisbon, Sagres and Albufeira. Your mocking tone is starting to annoy me Gringo. You seem to have an aversion for information which is not in line with your particular biases. Try to be a little more open minded, because you do not have a monopoly on wisdom here, and your facts are not always accurate.
««You seem to have an aversion for information which is not in line with your particular biases. Try to be a little more open minded, because you do not have a monopoly on wisdom here, and your facts are not always accurate.»»
Haha What are you now? The moderator? When my facts are not accurate I will get five posts reminding me so. Anyway, feel free to correct them with reliable sources any time you think you have a better answer. That is how a forum works. ««This is not my quote.»» It was LAA's quote. I did not write his name but he must be used to this mistakes he did not complain when you wrote: ««LAA, Your figure of 5000 words of Arabic origin in Spanish is very high and unconfirmed»»
Gringo
(And no one here has mentioned anything about the significant Jewish admixture in Portugual and Spain. Yes, around 1496, approx. 1/5 of the 1,000,000 population of Portugal was Jewish. And the Jewish presence in Spain was very significant too. When the Jews were expelled from Spain in 1492, Portugal took in most of the Jewish refugees, who later became the conversos in Portugal. Several thousand Jews fled Portugal to the diaspora, but most of them were forcibly converted by king Manuel, and they became the 'New Christians'. No one talks about this, but this history is true beyond a shadow of a doubt. So the Portuguese and Spanish people also received a significant Jewish admixture.) This was not my quto but Fransicos. I was just agreeing to fact that there was a Jewish community in Portugal, which did have a impact on the country at that time. Yes I know about the Portuguese Inquisition started in 1536 by King João III and the new christians. Take note though even though expelled from Portugal they did feel Portugese creating the Portuguese Sephardic Jews. http://www.apol.net/dightonrock/odyssey_of_port_jews.htm
Joey...thank you for posting that webpage link. I have seen and read that webpage before, and it is a great encapsulation of Portuguese Jewish history. The Jewish influence in Portugal was such that, at one time in Europe, Portuguese was synonymous with Jewish.
In the Ladino language, one finds many, many words of Portuguese origin. For example: "sh" replaced the letter 'j' in the Spanish word 'dejar', which in Ladino is pronounced 'deshar', pronounced like the Portuguese 'deixar' - in modern Spanish it is pronounced dehar, but written 'dejar'. Then there is 'aninda' (yet) - in Portuguese it is 'ainda' (although Portuguese also has the word 'todavia'), trocar (change) same in Portuguese (although Portuguese also has 'mudar & cambiar', which are used depending on the context of what is being said), and chapeu (hat) same in Portuguese. There are many other Ladino words of Portuguese origin. But the bulk of the Ladino language was originally based on Old Spanish, which was almost identical to Old Portuguese, with Hebrew admixture. Later, some French, Greek, Arabic, and Turkish vocabulary entered into Ladino.
««This was not my quto but Fransicos. »»
Yes I had noticed. I was answereing your comment. Very good your link, and very interesting. Perhaps you already know this one, about Judeo Portuguese language (extinct): http://www.jmrg.org/strolovitch/disspage/ |