What language is easiest for Spanish Speakers to understand?
Joey
««This was not my quto but Fransicos. »»
Yes I had noticed. I was answereing your comment.
Very good your link, and very interesting.
Perhaps you already know this one, about Judeo Portuguese language (extinct):
http://www.jmrg.org/strolovitch/disspage/
" in modern Spanish it is pronounced dehar "
In standard Spanish Castillian no.
In Spain, "j" is not pronouced "h", it is a specifically latin-american thing
Ricardo Sat Sep 09, 2006 4:17 am GMT
"yes in mexico you will find many mediterranean looking people, who's parents are probably from Italy or Spain.
In Venezuela and Argentina, the majority of the population are children of Spaniards, Italians, Germans, and a variety of other nationalities.
Here is what the CIA factbook says:
Venezuela:
Ethnic groups:
Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, Arab, German, African, indigenous people"
No Ricardo, most Venezuelans are mestizos/mulatos/zambos and only a minority are more or less pure blancos (whites), negros or indios.
Aldvs Fri Sep 08, 2006 2:42 am GMT
"Portuguese and Spanish have more similarity in Lexicon, while Spanish and Italian have more similarity in Phonology. The truth is the above. Also, that people whom speak spanish prefer to learn Italian and vice versa. Japanese would be the next selection, for spanish speakers and if there's time perhaps they'll acquire Portuguese...
I guess -phonology- is key."
I think that the key is actually the high level of mutual intelligibility. Spanish speakers use to talk to their Portuguese speaking counterparts in Spanish and are understood from most part, so they probably don´t consider learning of Portuguese to be usefull.
LAA Fri Sep 08, 2006 10:20 pm GMT
"His last name ends in -s. That's usually a dead giveaway for making distinctions between Portuguese and Spanish names.
Tomi: In written form, Spanish and Portuguese are incredibly similar, yes. But in spoken forum, the differences become more pronounced. And it is more difficult for me to pronounce Portuguese than Italian. Portuguese has a lot of Celtic influence in its phonology, the same way French does. Spanish and Portuguese are the closest in lexicon. As are French and Italian. But, Spanish and Italian are the closest in phonology. This, at least has a cancelling out or neutralizing effect."
Well, quickly and murmurous way of speech of Portuguese speaker can destroy a lot of mutual comprehension between Spanish and Portuguese on behalf of Italian/Spanish mutual intelligibility because Italian phonology is very simple and Italians usually speak quite clearly BUT clearly spoken Portuguese is something very different. I don´t think that any Portuguese or Brazilian would talk to Spanish or Argentinian in the same way as he would talk to his compatriot. Clearly and slowly spoken Portuguese or even some kind of Portunhol is certainly much easier for Spanish speaker than clearly spoken Italian. I am sure that Portuguese and Spanish speaking person usually understand each other much better than Spanish and Italian doing the same conversation.
Spanish speakers use to talk to their Portuguese speaking counterparts in Spanish and are understood from most part, so they probably don´t consider learning of Portuguese to be usefull
====
You can say Portuguese speakrs also think it is not necessary or usefull to learn Spanish . If they can understans it, and can make themselves understood, probably they don't consider it usefull .
"You can say Portuguese speakrs also think it is not necessary or usefull to learn Spanish . If they can understans it, and can make themselves understood, probably they don't consider it usefull."
Well, it is possible.
I agree with you Ayazid...I have been saying the exact same thing all along. You said:
"...BUT clearly spoken Portuguese is something very different. I don´t think that any Portuguese or Brazilian would talk to Spanish or Argentinian in the same way as he would talk to his compatriot. Clearly and slowly spoken Portuguese or even some kind of Portunhol is certainly much easier for Spanish speaker than clearly spoken Italian. I am sure that Portuguese and Spanish speaking person usually understand each other much better than Spanish and Italian doing the same conversation."
Absolutely true !! Italians can pronounce their words beautifully fifty-ways-to-sunday, but if they are using unfamiliar vocabulary, the Portuguese and Spanish speakers won't understand them, no matter how nice the Italian accent is. The Portuguese and Spanish speakers have an 89% common vocabulary which to draw from. And yes, when a Portuguese speaks a little slower and enunciates the words more clearly, the Spanish speaker will understand his Portuguese hermano completely. Like it or not, that's a fact folks.
Gringo
(««This was not my quto but Fransicos. »»
Yes I had noticed. I was answereing your comment.
Very good your link, and very interesting.
Perhaps you already know this one, about Judeo Portuguese language (extinct):
http://www.jmrg.org/strolovitch/disspage/)
No hadn't found this site yet , very good though. It's a pity this form of "Portuguese" has been lost and we can't hear it anymore, must have been quite interesting. At least another form of Portuguese is still around Cristang lets hope it dosn't suffer the same fate.
This might contradict what has been said thus far but the first time I heard Brazilian Portuguese I didn't understand it to well, Spanish from Spain seemed more familiar. Phonlogy seemed closer to Portuguese Portuguese but as time has gone by Brazilian Portuguese has become so famliar that it just seems like it is spoken with a slight accent while Spanish from Spain in a sense has grown farther away, even though quite easly understood. The question of vocabulary will provails over phonetics if given a chance to understand the phonetics.
Joey
««This might contradict what has been said thus far but the first time I heard Brazilian Portuguese I didn't understand it to well, Spanish from Spain seemed more familiar.»»
But you had heard Spanish before hadn't you? There are some accents in Portugal that can also be hard to understand if you listen to them for the first time. And Spanish (Castilian) accents in Spain that are impossible to decipher if you listen them for the first time too, even if you are a non native speaker used to listen to Spanish.
««Phonlogy seemed closer to Portuguese Portuguese but as time has gone by Brazilian Portuguese has become so famliar that it just seems like it is spoken with a slight accent while Spanish from Spain in a sense has grown farther away, even though quite easly understood.»»
I think the slight Brazilian accent is what people notice in Portugal. With so many accents around, from Africa, Brazilian accent is just another one.
Gringo
(But you had heard Spanish before hadn't you? There are some accents in Portugal that can also be hard to understand if you listen to them for the first time. And Spanish (Castilian) accents in Spain that are impossible to decipher if you listen them for the first time too, even if you are a non native speaker used to listen to Spanish.)
Yes, I had a Spanish friend when I was growing up, Pepe. We normaliy spoke English to each other but his mother would speak Spanish and my mother Portuguese to us. The great thing about being young is your mind is a sponge and you can pick up things quicker then when you are older and the best part, there are no linguastic rules.
(There are some accents in Portugal that can also be hard to understand if you listen to them for the first time.)
I never had a problem with them with the exception of the Azores accent. Even though not everyone uses it there are some islands thet do, I still have a hell of a time with it. The worst part is they can understand you perfectly, so we know what it's like being on the other side.
(And Spanish (Castilian) accents in Spain that are impossible to decipher if you listen them for the first time too, even if you are a non native speaker used to listen to Spanish.)
The Madrid accent I think is one of those accents, you can't help but wonder were the fire is for them to speak so quickly.
Gringo, I don't know where you got this info from, but in the USA, brazilians are NOT considered hispanic. Being that I work very closely with the us immigration, brazilians don not fall under the hispanic category, and somehow they fall under "white", to show how great the system is..lol.
Portuguese is a beautiful language, and many hispanics seem not to like it. But I know it is a mutual thing, because the number of people who hate spanish in Brazil is very large. So this pittyfull argument will go on for ages, so you people can keep on arguing over what's more important and what's this and that.
Want an important language???? Learn Chinese! Now that's the language of the future.
It's a fact Spanish South Americans are learning portuguese in school, wether they like it or not. Most Company CEOs in south american nations are portuguese speakers, and that pisses the hispanics off.
Oh, and calling portuguese an ugly language. For christ sake, have you heard mexican spanish??! It sounds like shit, seriously I want to throw up everytime I hear it. Spanish from Argentina and Spain are the most beautiful forms of the language.
Another thing, just to show how bad this is, If you go to the University of Pittsburgh, Portuguese is under a hispanic language. That's how great the language teaching system is in this country.
No wonder people think Brazil is in Asia, or that Rio de Janeiro is in fact in Australia like I had many asking me that....or if Brazil was hit by the Tsunamis.
Anyway, I'll let you girls argue over this. But to answer the post... Learn what you like best. If you fancy Italian, learn Italian... if Portuguese...learn Portuguese.
All these morons (except gringo and francisco) fighting over some dumb shit of how great my home tongue is pathetic and it's not helping you in anything.
Renato Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:47 am GMT
««Gringo, I don't know where you got this info from, but in the USA, brazilians are NOT considered hispanic. Being that I work very closely with the us immigration, brazilians don not fall under the hispanic category, and somehow they fall under "white", to show how great the system is..lol. »»
What info are you talking about?
You mean Brazilians are a race?
What is a hispanic category? Are hispanics synonym of not white?
I do not know how Brazilians, or anyone else, falls under what racial category based on the nationality.
««Another thing, just to show how bad this is, If you go to the University of Pittsburgh, Portuguese is under a hispanic language. That's how great the language teaching system is in this country.»»
The UP does not follow the USA cultural definition of Hispanic but, up to a certain point, the historical one. They refer to Hispanic as related to the Roman province Hispania and the Celt-Iberian Roman subjects. As the definition of Hispanic, in the USA, has changed I suppose you can say they are wrong.
The same way "goth" can lead to confusion:
1 : a member of a Germanic people that overran the Roman Empire in the early centuries of the Christian era
2 often not capitalized a : rock music marked by dark and morbid lyrics b : a fan or performer of goth
3 : a person who wears mostly black clothing, uses dark dramatic makeup, and often has dyed black hair.
Not to forget the gothic style in architecture and the Visigothic script:
"Visigothic script was a type of medieval script, so called because it originated in the Visigothic kingdom in Spain. It is also called littera toletana or littera mozarabica."
The later name of Hispania was Visigotia.
"Visigothic script was a type of medieval script, so called because it originated in the Visigothic kingdom in Spain. It is also called littera toletana or littera mozarabica." Wikipedia