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What language is easiest for Spanish Speakers to understand?
Gringo,
I don't know how many Visigoths settled in your end of Hispania, but can you think of a few words in Portuguese of Gothic origin?
I hate spam:
I do not know what you mean with that comment because the Visigoths adopted the Roman culture but they did not become Roman. You know how many Romans settled in Hispania? When Hispania was conquered the land and the people became Romans. When Hispania became Visigotia the land and the people became Visigoths. Otherwise you mean that Texans and Californians are Mexican ? Or native Americans? Try to explain why the Basque people, the Galician, the Catalan are Spanish. They also have their own language and culture. There are very few Gothic words but some are still spoken: Portuguese- Gothic Agasalho - gasalja Albergue -*haribergo Aleive - lavjan Alverque-haribergo Elmo-hilms Escanção-skankja Esquila-skilla Estaca-stakka Fona-fon Fornir-frumjan Guerra-*wirro Guia - *wida Lasca -laska Laverca -*laiwerko Luva-*glova Marta - marthus Roca - ruka Tampa - tappa Tiufado-taihunda
<<When Hispania was conquered the land and the people became Romans. When Hispania became Visigotia the land and the people became Visigoths. >>
Hispano-Romans did not become Visigoths. There is a Gothic genetic strain in modern Spaniards and Portuguese, as is evident by some people's phenotypes, particularly in the north. But, culturally and linguistically, it was the Visigoths (the minority) who were absorbed by the Iberans, not the other way around. The Visigoths became Catholics, and adopted Latin culture and language. They created a political kingdom, and they significantly changed social structure, with their "thanes" becoming the new nobility, or knightly class of warriors and landowners in the dark and middle ages. But they were Hispanicized, culturally and linguistically. There were about 200,000 Visigoths, and about 3 million Hispano-Romans, or Iberians. By the way, the "I hate Spam" poster was me. I put that in the name box by accident.
Gringo, I was refering to immigration, the categories they have when they ask your ethinicity.
White? African American? Hispanic? Asian Other?
In the forms I have seen, Hispanic is considered an Ethnicity, which goes next to such categories as "Eskimo/Alaska Native" and "Native Pacific Islander".
Under race, there is only three options Caucasian/White, Negroid/Black, Mongoloid/Asian. Hispanics go into Caucasian for the most part. It's logical to think Brazilians would to. Although there's the contradiction of Hispanics of mostly Indian, if not completley Indian, blood. "Why do ppl gotta always label everyone"
Hi Renato,
My experience is that Spanish speakers normally DO like Portuguese, especially the Brazillian one, because of the exposure to this language in Latinamerica. My experience is that Portuguese speakers, especially Brazillian ones, like the Spanish language, and generally speaking, there is a good relationship between both languages, at least in Latinamerica. I can understand that you find the Mexican Spanish ugly. Can you tell me from which region? Mexican Spanish is the same case as any variant of any language: depending on the region, the spectrum can go from sounding ridiculous, to ugly, to neutral, to beautiful. This is also true of the Brazillian Portuguese. I am not interested in convincing you that Mexican Spanish is not ugly, because I don't know your experiences with this language, I am just trying to understand your opinion on this.
Hey Renato that kind of saddens me because I come from a Brasilian/Panamanian family and they don't hate each other. I do not think your an expert on what all American Castellano speakers and a matter of fact many of them like Br. Portuguese and are fascenated by the spound of it. Your opinion breeds negativity. The same type that some on the Castellano speaking side of this forum have which is not a common opinion in Castellano speaking Latin America. I speak because I am a person from both sides of the language discussion (castellano/Eu.Portuguese.
YEAH THE SPANISH SPOKEN IN MADRID IS INCREDIBLE FAST. THEY SPEAK IF THEY WERE IN A RUSH AND IT CAN BE ANNOYING TOO.
I don't know how can someone learn Spanish over there
««Hispano-Romans did not become Visigoths. There is a Gothic genetic strain in modern Spaniards and Portuguese, as is evident by some people's phenotypes, particularly in the north.»»
What do you mean by Visigoth, a genetic strain, a culture? What genetic strain is that you are referring ? The Goths are thought to have originated in Scandinavia (Scandza) (Sweden). They moved to a place they called Gothiscandza [thought to be in north Poland probably mixing with some of the local people from the former Oksywie culture]. The Goth at this time are related to the Willenberg/Wielbark culture that was identified in this area. Probably during the 2nd century they moved to Oium [ Ukraine], they seemed to have mixed with the population of the Zarubintsy culture forming the the Sântana de Mureş culture/ Chernyakhov Culture that was extended to Dacia [Romania]. The former Zarubintsy culture is thought to be a mixture of people of Celtic La Tène culture, Scythians and Sarmatians. This was before the Goth entered the Roman Empire. As you can notice as they migrated they mixed with the local population that they probably subjugated, and their population numbers grew. The people of the Visigoth Kingdom were Visigoths not Romans, Romans were the subjects of Rome. The Visigoth and the former hispano-Roman population were not allowed to marry until Reccared became Catholic. That is when the ethic misture happened but even before they were Visigoth subjects. Catholicism was not a religion of Roman origin. You do not seem to understand that people were mixed at this time , many of these tribes were a federation of different tribes and there were tribes that changed their name for whatever reason. The Visigoth in Hispania adopted the Roman culture but also changed the local culture with their Visigothic construction style e.g. in some churches and Visigothic cemeteries. (You also had the Visigothic/ mozarabic rite that was different from the Roman.) ««But they were Hispanicized, culturally and linguistically. »» This is a new thing. I did not know there was a Hispanic language at this time. Were they Hispanicised or Romanised? Have you got the notion that when the Visigoth arrived in the Iberian Peninsula they were already Romanised? The Visigoth kingdom of Toulouse rings a bell? Before they settled in Hispania they were given lands in Gallia Aquitania. ««There were about 200,000 Visigoths, and about 3 million Hispano-Romans, or Iberians. »» Are you counting with the non-people, the "speaking tools, or salves? They were 40% of the Roman (in Rome) population at one time, when free they would become Roman citizens. You think there was not a slave population in Hispania? You think the Visigoth did not have slaves? How many Romans (from Rome) you think that settled in Hispania? Explain to me what you are: Are you American or Mexican? Or Spanish?
Explain to me what you are: Are you American or Mexican? Or Spanish?
I am asking you this to understand what is your notion of belonging to a culture, or nationality.
Renato
««Gringo, I was refering to immigration, the categories they have when they ask your ethinicity. White? African American? Hispanic? Asian Other? »» This is a N. American way of categorising people. People answer what they want and think they are. An Hispanic can have more than one categorie e.g. Hispanic and White. If you do not like it you can answer "Other". I asked you what was this information you wrote on your post: ««Gringo, I don't know where you got this info from, » I never said the Brazilians were Hispanics or considered Hispanics. So, tell me what is the information you are talking about.
White?
African American? Hispanic? Asian Other? »» In this American "ethnic" classification, what are considered Spanish people, argentineans, uruguayans ? Aren't they hispanic anymore ? "Hispanic" meaning from/related to Spain, I can't understand that people could be so stupid to exclude Spanish people from their own category. Or, are Spanish people thought by most people in the US as being non-white people ? And people of north Africa, Are they considered "African-American" ? And put together with black people from black Africa ? Asian ? Does it mean only "of mongoloid type", or does it includes all Asians ? Israelis, Iranians, Indians, Irakis ? All those categories that orgnaise so deeply the American minds seem to me no having any rational meaning. Not surprising that people like LAA are so confused about thair own identity.
They invented the Hispanic thing not to call people native Americans.
African Americans why would they immigrate to the USA? Aren't they Americans already, but from where? The only meaning in categorising people is in creating racism , discrimination and different types of Americans.
<<Explain to me what you are: Are you American or Mexican? Or Spanish? >>
The answer is that I am all three, depending on how you categorize me. When I am at a doctor's appointments, and the physician is trying to ascertain my genetic heritage (as some diseases are more common in certain populations), I correctly tell him that my ethnic heritage is Spanish. My culture is "Chicano" (Mexican-American). And my nationality is American. So yes, I am all three. <<What do you mean by Visigoth, a genetic strain, a culture? What genetic strain is that you are referring ?>> The Visigoths were a Germanic tribe, who like the other Germans, originated from Scandanavia. They were related to other Germanic peoples, who were of northern European stock. They were of a Germanic culture and language, and until their conversion to Arian Christianity, they practiced the mythological German religion as well. So, what I mean by "Gothic genetic strain", is the genetic contribution from the Germanic peoples known as the Visigoths. Just as when a child is conceived, he recieves 50% of his mother's genetic material, and 50% of his father's genetic material, so that he has a genetic strain from both of their families. So when the Visigoths settled and lived amongst the Iberians, they went on to mix with the local population, so that today, most Spaniards have at least a small Germanic component within their genetic heritage. <<This was before the Goth entered the Roman Empire. As you can notice as they migrated they mixed with the local population that they probably subjugated, and their population numbers grew. >> The mixing between the time they settled on the Roman side of the Danube, and their settlement in southern Gaul was probably very minimal. They were given land which was not already densely inhabited by local Romans. They also brought their wives and children with them, and as polygamy amongst most of the population was frowned upon in Germanic cultures, I doubt they mixed much with people in the eastern empire in the few decades before their final settlement in Hispania. When they entered Hispania, they were still described as being tall, with big builds, and with high frequencies of blond hair and blue eyes, etc. <<The people of the Visigoth Kingdom were Visigoths not Romans, Romans were the subjects of Rome. The Visigoth and the former hispano-Roman population were not allowed to marry until Reccared became Catholic. That is when the ethic misture happened but even before they were Visigoth subjects. Catholicism was not a religion of Roman origin.>> What???? The people of the Visigoth kingdom, which were the people who were subject to the Visigoth king, were not all Visigoths. The vast majority of them were Hispano-Romans, under the rule of a foreign people. They never took the name of Visigoths. It was the Visigoths who took the name of Spaniards, as they were absorbed by the much larger Hispano-Roman population, and took on their culture, religion, and language. And you said that Catholicism was a religion of Roman origin??? Christianity was founded in Judea, yes, but it quickly spread out throughout all of the Roman world, so that by the time of Constantine, it was to his advantage to adopt that religion for political purposes. He then made it the state religion of the Roman Empire, and this status continued, uninterrupted (except under Julian), all the way to the collapse of the Roman Empire. The Christian church, centered in Rome in the west, became a poltical construct as well as a religious organization as an instrument of the state. That is why, to this day, it is called the "ROMAN Catholic Church". By the time of the fall of the western Roman Empire, most Germanic peoples were either pagans, or of the Arian sect of Christianity (the Romans were of the Catholic sect). They were later converted to Catholicism for political purposes, as most of their Roman subjects were Catholic, as was the clergy which they relied on for civil administration. <<This is a new thing. I did not know there was a Hispanic language at this time. Were they Hispanicised or Romanised? Have you got the notion that when the Visigoth arrived in the Iberian Peninsula they were already Romanised? >> The people of Hispania, although Roman citizens, were still Spaniards (Hispania is Latin for Spain, as the kingdom of Portugal had not been founded yet, just as there was no Andalucia, Catalonia, or Aragon). That is why they were called "HISPANO-Romans". Their culture was a unique regional variety of the Latin culture, and because their regional dialect was different than that of Italy, their local vernacular Latin began to evolve onto its own path, which is why today, Spanish is different from Italian or French, because these are all regional varieties of modern day Latin. <<Are you counting with the non-people, the "speaking tools, or salves? They were 40% of the Roman (in Rome) population at one time, when free they would become Roman citizens. You think there was not a slave population in Hispania? You think the Visigoth did not have slaves?>> And? So? A Roman did not have to be from "Rome". "Roman" was a political term, where peoples from all sorts of diverse backgrounds were considered Romans, because they were Roman citizens. Very few "Romans" from Rome actually colonized Spain, but the Spanish or Hispano-Roman population, of mainly Iberian extraction were considered Romans, because they adopted Roman civilization and were Roman citizens. There were most likely a substantial number of Roman colonists in Spain, from all over Italy, and maybe other parts of the empire, but relative to the native population, they would have been small in number. |