What language is easiest for Spanish Speakers to understand?

Carlos   Sun Dec 10, 2006 1:40 am GMT

"If what you mean and what you write do not agree I can not guess what you want to say."

I do not quite know how to interpret your condescending tone... Are you trying to be irksome on purpose or are you cantankerous by nature? Do you perhaps have a bone to pick with someone and are taking it out on me (or on any Spaniard, perhaps: de Espanha nem bom vento nem bom cassamento?)

Please, do not make me engage in a sterile battle about whose fault it was, whether mine for the way I expressed myself or yours for your erroneous interpretation. Anyone civilised would have put it down to a misunderstanding, without impolitely attributing the blame to the other person, especially if he has gone to the trouble of trying to clarify it. I have also had some difficulties in interpreting your message above as what you meant ("I CANNOT/CAN'T guess what you want to say") is not the same as what you said ("I CAN NOT guess what you want to say": i.e: it is POSSIBLE FOR ME NOT TO guess..."). I suggest, for the sake of both sanity and courtesy, that we both accept that some misunderstanding is inevitable in human communication when/if we have the pleasure of continuing this discussion.

Here is yet another attempt at clarification on my part: the percentage of 60% I gave for the R1b haplogroup was an average for the whole of Spain. I've seen it put at as high as 70% in some other places.

As for the study I mentioned about Portugal, I confess, guilty as claimed! I have not checked its sources, methods, criteria, sample size, hidden motives (???) etc. I will justify myself by alleging that my "knowledge" on this issue is that of a layman. To illustrate my point with an analogy, my attitude towards the article I cited is pretty much the same as when I'm prescribed certain tablets by my doctor: I take them without checking first what scientific methods were followed to discover the active principle that makes them effective. I daresay most people would identify with this.

Anyway, as in any legal system, if you wish to argue the data in that article were wrong, the burden of the proof is yours... i.e: it is not the accused (myself? Mr. Amorim?) who should defend his innocence, but the accuser (you) who should convincingly prove that the accused is in fact guilty beyond any reasonable doubt (in this case, of the crime of distorsion of the truth...). In other words: if you claim that Mr. Amorim's conclusions are not sustainable owing to any flaws in his scientific method, it would be nice if you could support your claims with data rather than with mere observations in that direction. Otherwise, the case will be overseen by lack of sufficient evidence. To put it more clearly: if you have the scientific knowledge and data that might put me in the right, please, be as kind as to share it. So far, I have no palpable reasons that would make me believe you rather than Mr. Amorim.

I should not feel the need to say this but, anyway, just in case: I have nothing against the Portuguese. Quite on the contrary: I love that country, north, centre and south, and, as a Galician, feel at totally at home there. I find it totally immaterial whether the percentage of carriers of the R1b haplotype in that country is higher or lower than in Spain, or whether population-wise it is at the edge of a neolithic expansion or not.

"But what has this to do with Celts or language?"

Someone else introduced the issue of the Celts, by saying that if it were true that there was an ethnic connection between Northern Iberia and the British Isles through the R1b haplotype, we Spaniards would be all blond and Celtic... I just wanted to argue that the R1b haplotype had nothing to do with the Celts, and that what we know of them is blurred by the mists of the past (including their physical appearance).

"woops "Any one" that lived there ended up in the Iberian peninsula"

And, oops!, anyone who lived in Africa if we go far back enough seems to have ended up all over the world.... And so? What are you getting at?

"their comprehensibility ?? You are referring to ?"

- It was in answer to JGreko's observations. See above.
- "Their" possessive deictic referring back to "the accents of Lisbon and Porto"
Comprehensibility: synonymous of "understandability" (capacity for being understood).
- General Context: Answering the question "what langage is easiest for Spanish speakers to understand?"
- In other words: The understandability of the accents of Lisbon and Porto by Spanish speakers.

I hope that clarified it. Might pop in some day to check your answer, and if you are pleasant, I might even consider answering. If that were the case, I promise to try to do it in a civilised way.

Cheers for now!
german girl   Fri Dec 15, 2006 11:08 pm GMT
I am from Germany, My language is considered supposedly ugly LOL

now I have been to Brazil and I don't think most brazilians qualify as being white in the US sense of the word.
the average person from brazil looks like a typical latin american to me....

now between both languages I think most Germans would chose spanish over portuguese because of cultural importance.... also portuguese is very unknown in germany to the point a reporter once claimed that portuguese is one of the most important dialects of the spanish language !! :(

Renato: I was in Brazil and I didn't see people hating on the spanish language, neither I saw people hating on portuguese language when I was in Chile, columbia and cuba.... actually I don't think any one ever said anything about the portuguese language at all.

I think you are very infatuated with race (americanized yourself a lot huh?)
Elaine Pepe   Sun Dec 17, 2006 6:45 pm GMT
I am Brazilian, and we consider ourselves Latin Americans for clear reasons: Brazil is located in South America and we speak Portuguese, a Latin language.
But what does the word Hispanic mean to Americans? A person from South America/ Central America who speaks Spanish? If so, Brazilians are not Hispanics because our mother language is Portuguese, I mean "Brazilian Portuguese". The word "Hispanic" sounds strange when applied to us because it gives the impression to the world that we speak Spanish. And, you know, many people DO think we speak Spanish because Brazil is surrounded by countries whose mother language is Spanish.
And please don´t misunderstand me. I love the Spanish language. In my opinion is one of the most beautiful languages in the world, really, if not the most beautiful one. But the language is part of the identity of a people. And Brazilians speak Portuguese, not Spanish.
One remark that is key: there are differences between Continental Portuguese (spoken in Portugal) and "Brazilian Portuguese". I think that my "hermanos" in South America are able to understand "Brazilian Portuguese", the same way Brazilians can understand them. We have even created a new language called "Portunhol" (Português + Espanhol = Portuguese + Spanish). But I have to confess that I don´t understand the Spanish spoken in Spain. It is too fast.
As far as Portuguese is concerned, the differences in pronunciation between Continental Portuguese and Brazilian Portuguese are very relevant.
I am not sure if an Argentinian would be able to understand Continental Portuguese, but I think that, with little effort, he/she will be able to understand Brazilian Portuguese. Furthermore, I would like to emphasize that, due to Mercosur, many high schools in Brazil added Spanish to their curriculum.
Finally, I really don´t know if Spaniards and Portuguese can understand each other. But here in South America, we managed to understand each other.
Elaine Pepe   Sun Dec 17, 2006 7:10 pm GMT
Just one additional remark: I am answering the question "What language is easiest for Spanish speakers to understand? My opinion is: in South America is Brazilian Portuguese.
I am not talking about races or skin color. After all, Brazil is a melting pot! I am blond and as white as a sheet of paper and Pelé is Afro-Brazilian. But we were both born in Brazil, speak Brazilian Portuguese and are "latinos".
Carlos   Mon Dec 18, 2006 12:54 am GMT

Simply and plainly, as far as main national languages are concerned, I AGREE WITH YOU. Yes, Brazilian Portuguese is easier to understand for us Spanish speakers than European Portuguese (and I'm not making a value judgement here...).

German Girl and Renato:

I simply don't understand why you have introduced the things you talk about and who you are referring to...
l   Sun Dec 31, 2006 7:41 pm GMT
sam   Mon Jan 22, 2007 5:47 pm GMT
i disagree most mexicans are mestizo and all spainards are white
zumbi   Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:14 pm GMT
to Elaine Pepe,
We have even created a new language called "Portunhol" (Português + Espanhol = Portuguese + Spanish). /

You have created a new language called portunhol? Have you registered the invention? Spain and Portugal have spoken portunhol even before Brasil was invented .

to german girl,

"white in the us sense" is that a new color shade? If you can not speak like an european do not pretend to be one.

to Carlos,
try fast spoken Castilian from Spain.

The posts are all from the same funny person or you are all twins
Josue   Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:13 am GMT
Hey many people in Italy have the name Josue..That is soo cool!!
Roby_k   Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:48 pm GMT
>>Hey many people in Italy have the name Josue..That is soo cool!!

True... and it's written " Giosuè ".
K. T.   Sun Sep 16, 2007 8:36 pm GMT
Guest, you don't need a "b" in the word describing how clumsy a person or group is.

I suppose some Spanish speaker upset up and you're mad about it.
K. T.   Sun Sep 16, 2007 8:38 pm GMT
upset you...lol.

Anyway, don't worry about Spanish speakers. People who want to learn a language will learn it.
Guest2   Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:32 pm GMT
To Guest

Well, in some countries like Spain or France that speak international languages, people do not need to study English.

We can say that British are foolish because they do not speak foreign languages, like French or Spanish, but that is not true. It is simpler, they speak an international language yet as mother tongue. The same as Spaniards or French people.
K. T.   Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:39 pm GMT

While I consider Spanish and French to be international languages, they won't work widely in many countries. Try Spanish in a ryokan or in Seven Eleven in Japan. Try French in a small town in the United States. English is just studied more, used more.

I think it's wise for everyone to learn a second or third language if they have any idea that they would like to travel on their own (yes, that means Americans too! Don't let Rick Steves fool you into thinking you can travel safely alone like he does. He has a camera person and a producer.) or if they plan to live in another country.