Fancy a pint, Adam? ...my call.
Best way to Learn British English?
Talking about old fashioned speech, I remember talking to a guy (Andrew)from Shetland. He related a story of how his Mum would say "I beseech thee Andrew" and he would laugh and tell her that nobody speaks like that these days.
I think England would benefit from a national anthem of its own- it's stupid to have the British and English anthems the same.
I think England would benefit from a national anthem of its own- it's stupid to have the British and English anthems the same.
I wouldn't mind having ten pints, right now.
I'm getting paid tomorrow, so I'm going to the pub for a few.
England's national anthem should be "Jerusalem."
Unlike the Scottish national anthem, which is anti-English and which revels in Scotland's victory against England in a battle that took place hundreds of years ago, "Jerusalem" isn't anti-any nationality, and is about looking to the future and being optimistic.
I'm getting paid tomorrow, so I'm going to the pub for a few.
England's national anthem should be "Jerusalem."
Unlike the Scottish national anthem, which is anti-English and which revels in Scotland's victory against England in a battle that took place hundreds of years ago, "Jerusalem" isn't anti-any nationality, and is about looking to the future and being optimistic.
Just think. During Euro 2004, England were the only team who didn't sing their own national anthem- because England doesn't even have one.
Yet again, neither does Northern Ireland. The Northern Ireland football team also sings God Save the Queen before football games, so it was strange, when England played Northern Ireland, that only one anthem, rather than two, was sung.
Yet again, neither does Northern Ireland. The Northern Ireland football team also sings God Save the Queen before football games, so it was strange, when England played Northern Ireland, that only one anthem, rather than two, was sung.
ADAM: stop your whingeing, pal! England does have it's own anthem...as you say it's Jerusalem...why go on whining? :-) If you think that Flower of Scotland has an anti English theme then it has....and it's justified so tough s**t. :-) Anyway F of S has a crap tune and it's mostly played and sang at Rugby and foorball matches anyway. For deep down in the heart stirring words and great tune it;s always Scotland the Brave, the one you always hear the pipe bands play.
Anthems of all four countries:
SCOTLAND
No 1: O Flower of Scotland
O Flower of Scotland,
When will we see
Your like again,
That fought and died for,
Your wee bit Hill and Glen,
And stood against him,
Proud Edward's Army,
And sent him homeward,
Tae think again.
The Hills are bare now,
And Autumn leaves
lie thick and still,
O'er land that is lost now,
Which those so dearly held,
That stood against him,
Proud Edward's Army,
And sent him homeward,
Tae think again.
Those days are past now,
And in the past
they must remain,
But we can still rise now,
And be the nation again,
That stood against him,
Proud Edward's Army,
And sent him homeward,
Tae think again.
0 Flower of Scotland,
When will we see
your like again,
That fought and died for,
Your wee bit Hill and Glen,
And stood against him,
Proud Edward's Army,
And sent him homeward,
Tae think again.
No 2: Scotland the Brave
Hark when the night is falling
I hear the pipes are calling
Loudly and proudly calling
Down thro' the glen.
There where the hills are sleeping
Now feel the blood a-leaping
High as the spirits of
The old Highland men.
Towering in gallant fame
Scotland my mountain hame
High may your proud standards
Gloriously wave.
Land of my high endeavour
Land of the shining silver
Land of my heart forever
Scotland the Brave.
High in the misty Highlands
Out by the purple islands
Brave are the hearts that beat
Beneath Scottish skies.
Wild are the winds to meet you
Staunch are the friends that greet you
Kind as the love that shines
From fair maidens eyes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WALES
(a) Welsh: Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau / (b) English: Land of My Fathers
(a) Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau
Mae hen wlad fy nhadau yn annwyl i mi,
Gwlad beirdd a chantorion, enwogion o fri;
Ei gwrol ryfelwyr, gwladgarwyr tra mâd,
Tros ryddid gollasant eu gwaed.
Gwlad, gwlad, pleidiol wyf i'm gwlad.
Tra môr yn fur i'r bur hoff bau,
O bydded i'r hen iaith barhau.
Hen Gymru fynyddig, paradwys y bardd,
Pob dyffryn, pob clogwyn i'm golwg sydd hardd;
Trwy deimlad gwladgarol, mor swynol yw si
Ei nentydd, afonydd, i mi.
Os treisiodd y gelyn fy ngwlad tan ei droed,
Mae hen iaith y Cymry mor fyw ag erioed.
Ni luddiwyd yr awen gan erchyll law brad,
Na thelyn berseiniol fy ngwlad.
(b) English Translation: Land Of My Fathers
O land of my fathers, O land of my love,
Dear mother of minstrels who kindle and move,
And hero on hero, who at honour's proud call,
For freedom their lifeblood let fall.
Wales! Wales! O but my heart is with you!
And long as the sea
Your bulwark shall be,
To Cymru my heart shall be true.
O land of the mountains, the bard's paradise,
Whose precipice, valleys lone as the skies,
Green murmuring forest, far echoing flood
Fire the fancy and quicken the blood.
For tho' the fierce foeman has ravaged your realm,
The old speech of Cymru he cannot o'erwhelm,
Our passionate poets to silence command
Or banish the harp from your strand.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NORTHERN IRELAND
O Danny Boy (aka The Londonderry Air)
Oh Danny Boy, the pipes, the pipes are callin'
From glen to glen, and down the mountainside
The summer's gone and all the flowers are dyin'
'Tis you, 'tis you, must go and I must bide
But come you back when summer's in the meadow
Or when the valley's hushed and white with snow
'Tis I'll be there in sunshine or in shadow
Oh Danny Boy, Oh Danny Boy, I love you so
I love you so, Danny Boy, I love you so
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ENGLAND
Jerusalem
And did those feet in ancient time
Walk upon England's mountain green?
And was the holy Lamb of God
On England's pleasant pastures seen?
And did the countenance divine
Shine forth upon our clouded hills?
And was Jerusalem builded here
Among those dark satanic mills?
Bring me my bow of burning gold!
Bring me my arrows of desire!
Bring me my spear! O clouds, unfold!
Bring me my chariot of fire!
I will not cease from mental fight,
Nor shall my sword sleep in my hand,
Till we have built Jerusalem
In England's green and pleasant land.
================================================
Anthems of all four countries:
SCOTLAND
No 1: O Flower of Scotland
O Flower of Scotland,
When will we see
Your like again,
That fought and died for,
Your wee bit Hill and Glen,
And stood against him,
Proud Edward's Army,
And sent him homeward,
Tae think again.
The Hills are bare now,
And Autumn leaves
lie thick and still,
O'er land that is lost now,
Which those so dearly held,
That stood against him,
Proud Edward's Army,
And sent him homeward,
Tae think again.
Those days are past now,
And in the past
they must remain,
But we can still rise now,
And be the nation again,
That stood against him,
Proud Edward's Army,
And sent him homeward,
Tae think again.
0 Flower of Scotland,
When will we see
your like again,
That fought and died for,
Your wee bit Hill and Glen,
And stood against him,
Proud Edward's Army,
And sent him homeward,
Tae think again.
No 2: Scotland the Brave
Hark when the night is falling
I hear the pipes are calling
Loudly and proudly calling
Down thro' the glen.
There where the hills are sleeping
Now feel the blood a-leaping
High as the spirits of
The old Highland men.
Towering in gallant fame
Scotland my mountain hame
High may your proud standards
Gloriously wave.
Land of my high endeavour
Land of the shining silver
Land of my heart forever
Scotland the Brave.
High in the misty Highlands
Out by the purple islands
Brave are the hearts that beat
Beneath Scottish skies.
Wild are the winds to meet you
Staunch are the friends that greet you
Kind as the love that shines
From fair maidens eyes.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WALES
(a) Welsh: Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau / (b) English: Land of My Fathers
(a) Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau
Mae hen wlad fy nhadau yn annwyl i mi,
Gwlad beirdd a chantorion, enwogion o fri;
Ei gwrol ryfelwyr, gwladgarwyr tra mâd,
Tros ryddid gollasant eu gwaed.
Gwlad, gwlad, pleidiol wyf i'm gwlad.
Tra môr yn fur i'r bur hoff bau,
O bydded i'r hen iaith barhau.
Hen Gymru fynyddig, paradwys y bardd,
Pob dyffryn, pob clogwyn i'm golwg sydd hardd;
Trwy deimlad gwladgarol, mor swynol yw si
Ei nentydd, afonydd, i mi.
Os treisiodd y gelyn fy ngwlad tan ei droed,
Mae hen iaith y Cymry mor fyw ag erioed.
Ni luddiwyd yr awen gan erchyll law brad,
Na thelyn berseiniol fy ngwlad.
(b) English Translation: Land Of My Fathers
O land of my fathers, O land of my love,
Dear mother of minstrels who kindle and move,
And hero on hero, who at honour's proud call,
For freedom their lifeblood let fall.
Wales! Wales! O but my heart is with you!
And long as the sea
Your bulwark shall be,
To Cymru my heart shall be true.
O land of the mountains, the bard's paradise,
Whose precipice, valleys lone as the skies,
Green murmuring forest, far echoing flood
Fire the fancy and quicken the blood.
For tho' the fierce foeman has ravaged your realm,
The old speech of Cymru he cannot o'erwhelm,
Our passionate poets to silence command
Or banish the harp from your strand.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NORTHERN IRELAND
O Danny Boy (aka The Londonderry Air)
Oh Danny Boy, the pipes, the pipes are callin'
From glen to glen, and down the mountainside
The summer's gone and all the flowers are dyin'
'Tis you, 'tis you, must go and I must bide
But come you back when summer's in the meadow
Or when the valley's hushed and white with snow
'Tis I'll be there in sunshine or in shadow
Oh Danny Boy, Oh Danny Boy, I love you so
I love you so, Danny Boy, I love you so
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ENGLAND
Jerusalem
And did those feet in ancient time
Walk upon England's mountain green?
And was the holy Lamb of God
On England's pleasant pastures seen?
And did the countenance divine
Shine forth upon our clouded hills?
And was Jerusalem builded here
Among those dark satanic mills?
Bring me my bow of burning gold!
Bring me my arrows of desire!
Bring me my spear! O clouds, unfold!
Bring me my chariot of fire!
I will not cease from mental fight,
Nor shall my sword sleep in my hand,
Till we have built Jerusalem
In England's green and pleasant land.
================================================
Look carefully at the lurics and you will see they are anti-English. They talk about "sending Edward homewards."
The Welsh one - "For tho' the fierce foeman has ravaged your realm,
The old speech of Cymru he cannot o'erwhelm,"
Compare that to Jerusalem which has no reference to Scotland or Wales whatsoever.
And Danny Boy isn't Northern Ireland's national anthem. Like England, Northern Ireland doesn't have one. We played Northern Ireland twice in the World Cup qualifiers, and both countries sang God Save the Queen.
The Welsh one - "For tho' the fierce foeman has ravaged your realm,
The old speech of Cymru he cannot o'erwhelm,"
Compare that to Jerusalem which has no reference to Scotland or Wales whatsoever.
And Danny Boy isn't Northern Ireland's national anthem. Like England, Northern Ireland doesn't have one. We played Northern Ireland twice in the World Cup qualifiers, and both countries sang God Save the Queen.
The Times October 10, 2005
Come home . . . for the sake of auld economy
By Angus Macleod and David Lister
Scotland wants to tempt back millions of expatriates to halt population decline
SCOTLAND is to embark on an unprecedented charm offensive to encourage expatriates to return to their homeland.
Jack McConnell, First Minister of the devolved Scottish Executive, will fly the Saltire in Australia, the United States, Canada and South Africa to tempt Scots home.
First stop for Mr McConnell will be a week-long visit to Canada and New York this month, where he will appeal to an estimated 15 million claiming to have Scottish ancestry in North America. He is especially targeting those deemed prosperous enough to use their fortunes to help to revive Scotland’s flagging economy.
Though not specifically targeted at Scotland’s overseas celebrities, from Annie Lennox, based in London, to David Coulthard, in Monaco, and Sean Connery, in the Bahamas, Mr McConnell will no doubt have them in mind when he tells exiled Scots that the country has more to offer than just “mountains, mist, haggis and Braveheart”.
The trip, which is certain to be followed by visits to other countries, such as Australia and South Africa, where there are also large Scottish communities, is aimed at reversing a trend articulated by Edwin Muir, the Scottish poet.
In a move that will stretch his authority to the limit, Mr McConnell told The Times that he also intends to take his message south of the border to England to urge exiled professional Scots in positions of influence to review their image of the “old country”.
The presence of large numbers of Scots in senior jobs in politics, finance and the media in London has sparked suggestions that Britain is currently being run by a “Tartan Raj”.
Jeremy Paxman, the BBC Newsnight presenter, complained earlier this year that the highest echelons of government were dominated by Scots, with five Cabinet ministers from north of the border, including Gordon Brown, the Chancellor. The figure rises to six if Edinburgh-born Tony Blair is included, while on the opposition benches the best-known Scot is Charles Kennedy, leader of the Liberal Democrats.
Scots in the London-based media include the BBC’s James Naughtie, Andrew Marr and Andrew Neil, as well as Nicky Campbell, Lorraine Kelly and Channel 5’s Kirsty Young. Even Gordon Ramsay, the Glasgow-born celebrity chef, lives in Wandsworth, South London.
Mr McConnell’s appeal to Scottish expatriates follows increasing fears over the country’s declining population, which in the next two decades is on course to fall below the landmark five million mark. The falling population poses a substantial threat to Scotland’s economic growth, which is already lagging behind the rest of the UK. However, he will be hoping not everyone takes up his request. There are up to 90 million people of Scottish ancestry — based on those claiming at least one Scottish great-grandparent — living outside of the country.
Mr McConnell told The Times: “About 15 per cent of the Canadian population identify themselves as of Scots ancestry. They feel an affinity, which is largely historical. They love and believe in the history, the landscape, castles and old links.
“But I want to make them aware of modern Scotland. I do not want to rubbish the past because the past is the connection, but I want to tell them where Scotland is today in terms of financial services, universities and our cities as well as the rebirth of Scottish culture.
“We have begun to address that trend and that I think is to do with the quality of life we can offer in Scotland and we will be making plans to target some of the talented Scots in London.”
During the trip to Canada, Mr McConnell will meet with Paul Martin, the Canadian Prime Minister, as well as host a gathering of several hundred Scots/Canadians in Toronto.
Mr McConnell has been subtly stretching the powers of the Scottish Executive in an attempt to promote Scotland abroad. He has sought to raise the profile of the “Tartan Day” celebrations held in the US every April and, in a further example of Scottish “empire building”, the Executive confirmed at the weekend that it had appointed its own “ambassador” to China. There is already an executive official in a similar post at the British Embassy in Washington.
Mr McConnell will use his trip to Canada to urge business leaders, including those with Scottish connections, to exploit commercial opportunities in Scotland and to encourage those with an emotional attachment to Scotland to support charities, education projects and arts groups.
The trip is styled on steps taken by Ireland to tap into goodwill among the Irish abroad, either by investing in the country or returning home.
'My main impression is that Scotland is being gradually emptied of its population, its spirit, its wealth, industry, art, intellect and innate character'
Edwin Muir, Scottish poet, 1935
'History opens doors but gives people the impression of Scotland as a backward-looking country with poor infrastructure... We have five international airports and our largest bank is the fifth largest in the world'
Jack McConnell, First Minister, 2005
Come home . . . for the sake of auld economy
By Angus Macleod and David Lister
Scotland wants to tempt back millions of expatriates to halt population decline
SCOTLAND is to embark on an unprecedented charm offensive to encourage expatriates to return to their homeland.
Jack McConnell, First Minister of the devolved Scottish Executive, will fly the Saltire in Australia, the United States, Canada and South Africa to tempt Scots home.
First stop for Mr McConnell will be a week-long visit to Canada and New York this month, where he will appeal to an estimated 15 million claiming to have Scottish ancestry in North America. He is especially targeting those deemed prosperous enough to use their fortunes to help to revive Scotland’s flagging economy.
Though not specifically targeted at Scotland’s overseas celebrities, from Annie Lennox, based in London, to David Coulthard, in Monaco, and Sean Connery, in the Bahamas, Mr McConnell will no doubt have them in mind when he tells exiled Scots that the country has more to offer than just “mountains, mist, haggis and Braveheart”.
The trip, which is certain to be followed by visits to other countries, such as Australia and South Africa, where there are also large Scottish communities, is aimed at reversing a trend articulated by Edwin Muir, the Scottish poet.
In a move that will stretch his authority to the limit, Mr McConnell told The Times that he also intends to take his message south of the border to England to urge exiled professional Scots in positions of influence to review their image of the “old country”.
The presence of large numbers of Scots in senior jobs in politics, finance and the media in London has sparked suggestions that Britain is currently being run by a “Tartan Raj”.
Jeremy Paxman, the BBC Newsnight presenter, complained earlier this year that the highest echelons of government were dominated by Scots, with five Cabinet ministers from north of the border, including Gordon Brown, the Chancellor. The figure rises to six if Edinburgh-born Tony Blair is included, while on the opposition benches the best-known Scot is Charles Kennedy, leader of the Liberal Democrats.
Scots in the London-based media include the BBC’s James Naughtie, Andrew Marr and Andrew Neil, as well as Nicky Campbell, Lorraine Kelly and Channel 5’s Kirsty Young. Even Gordon Ramsay, the Glasgow-born celebrity chef, lives in Wandsworth, South London.
Mr McConnell’s appeal to Scottish expatriates follows increasing fears over the country’s declining population, which in the next two decades is on course to fall below the landmark five million mark. The falling population poses a substantial threat to Scotland’s economic growth, which is already lagging behind the rest of the UK. However, he will be hoping not everyone takes up his request. There are up to 90 million people of Scottish ancestry — based on those claiming at least one Scottish great-grandparent — living outside of the country.
Mr McConnell told The Times: “About 15 per cent of the Canadian population identify themselves as of Scots ancestry. They feel an affinity, which is largely historical. They love and believe in the history, the landscape, castles and old links.
“But I want to make them aware of modern Scotland. I do not want to rubbish the past because the past is the connection, but I want to tell them where Scotland is today in terms of financial services, universities and our cities as well as the rebirth of Scottish culture.
“We have begun to address that trend and that I think is to do with the quality of life we can offer in Scotland and we will be making plans to target some of the talented Scots in London.”
During the trip to Canada, Mr McConnell will meet with Paul Martin, the Canadian Prime Minister, as well as host a gathering of several hundred Scots/Canadians in Toronto.
Mr McConnell has been subtly stretching the powers of the Scottish Executive in an attempt to promote Scotland abroad. He has sought to raise the profile of the “Tartan Day” celebrations held in the US every April and, in a further example of Scottish “empire building”, the Executive confirmed at the weekend that it had appointed its own “ambassador” to China. There is already an executive official in a similar post at the British Embassy in Washington.
Mr McConnell will use his trip to Canada to urge business leaders, including those with Scottish connections, to exploit commercial opportunities in Scotland and to encourage those with an emotional attachment to Scotland to support charities, education projects and arts groups.
The trip is styled on steps taken by Ireland to tap into goodwill among the Irish abroad, either by investing in the country or returning home.
'My main impression is that Scotland is being gradually emptied of its population, its spirit, its wealth, industry, art, intellect and innate character'
Edwin Muir, Scottish poet, 1935
'History opens doors but gives people the impression of Scotland as a backward-looking country with poor infrastructure... We have five international airports and our largest bank is the fifth largest in the world'
Jack McConnell, First Minister, 2005
"The presence of large numbers of Scots in senior jobs in politics, finance and the media in London has sparked suggestions that Britain is currently being run by a “Tartan Raj”.
Jeremy Paxman, the BBC Newsnight presenter, complained earlier this year that the highest echelons of government were dominated by Scots, with five Cabinet ministers from north of the border, including Gordon Brown, the Chancellor. The figure rises to six if Edinburgh-born Tony Blair is included, while on the opposition benches the best-known Scot is Charles Kennedy, leader of the Liberal Democrats. "
Hmm, just what I've been saying on this forum.
Jeremy Paxman, the BBC Newsnight presenter, complained earlier this year that the highest echelons of government were dominated by Scots, with five Cabinet ministers from north of the border, including Gordon Brown, the Chancellor. The figure rises to six if Edinburgh-born Tony Blair is included, while on the opposition benches the best-known Scot is Charles Kennedy, leader of the Liberal Democrats. "
Hmm, just what I've been saying on this forum.
So, all we need to do is get those 90 million or so Scots of Scottish ancestry back to Scotland and the UK will have a population of 150 million.
ADAM: I was in Milton Keynes over the weekend...I needed no bribes or temptation to go back home. Actually, it was really good down there.....gr8 time.
Whingeing is an English pastime...like drinking.
Drinking is a Scottish pastime..... end of. :-)
If Scots left their homeland in days of yore to go elsewhere it's because of something called a pioneer spirit. If all their descendants did actually decide to return "home" it would seriously deplete economies all around the globe.
Glad you noticed the sentiments in those anthems. Anti English??? Neverrrrrrrrrrr....... :-)
Danny Boy (the Londonderry Air) is the tune that instantly comes to mind for most people when it comes to Northern Ireland. That or the Mountains of Mourne...or I Know a Girl in Belfast City. OK clever clogs...what exactly IS the proper anthem for the Province then?
Whingeing is an English pastime...like drinking.
Drinking is a Scottish pastime..... end of. :-)
If Scots left their homeland in days of yore to go elsewhere it's because of something called a pioneer spirit. If all their descendants did actually decide to return "home" it would seriously deplete economies all around the globe.
Glad you noticed the sentiments in those anthems. Anti English??? Neverrrrrrrrrrr....... :-)
Danny Boy (the Londonderry Air) is the tune that instantly comes to mind for most people when it comes to Northern Ireland. That or the Mountains of Mourne...or I Know a Girl in Belfast City. OK clever clogs...what exactly IS the proper anthem for the Province then?