What is also very important is that Greeks and Turks DO NOT SHARE THE SAME RELIGION.
Why is greek such a funny language?
So, I don't really think that there was so much intermarriage between the twain, and when this happened, the offspring would have been more likely to become Turkish than Greek, just because of the strict Ottoman laws always giving preference to Islam.
I always thought that greeks and iranians came from the same people because they look so much alike, but now I understand that the dark complexion in greeks is due to their turkish geene in them. It is fascinating that what huge influence the Ottomans (turks) had and still have on todays greeks' lives, well better said, their 1/2 brothers. The thing about religion is a different element. Those days people changed religion sometimes more than twice in a lifetime, so it would be hard to determine anything based on any assumption of that kind.
I am very intersted to know about the numbers of Africans and their influxes in the Southern islands of Greece. How many of them did actually pass from the greek islands to the Balkan Peninsula? What is their influence on the greek language?
By the way, no disrespect, but italians look more European than greeks or turks. This is not a thing to be mad about guys (greeks and turks), just a sincere perception from the outside.
I am very intersted to know about the numbers of Africans and their influxes in the Southern islands of Greece. How many of them did actually pass from the greek islands to the Balkan Peninsula? What is their influence on the greek language?
By the way, no disrespect, but italians look more European than greeks or turks. This is not a thing to be mad about guys (greeks and turks), just a sincere perception from the outside.
This is pure madness. You guys are trying to convince us that there are actually 3-4% of "real greeks" still living in Greece today. Everybody knows the simple fact that the "real greeks" were assimilated during centuries from other neighboring nations, but mostly during the horrible 500 years of Ottoman Empire rule. Guys, there are no greeks living in Greece now, just turks who speak greek. Why do you play the ignorant and act like you don't know? Greek language also is a mixture of the old greek with all the languages of neighboring languages, mostly turkish, but at the same time kept its old alphabet and structure.
Conversion of a Mahomedan to Christianity was FORBIDDEN those days; if a Christian married a Mahomedan, their children at least, had to be reared as Mahomedans. That's why it is extremly unlikely that a large number of marriages between Turks and Greeks occured, with the Turkish element being assimilated into the Greek one. It was rather the opposite way.
I felt sorry for a greek guy who posted here though...Sotiris...lol...that was funny and sad at the same time...lol...
Petar, you said: "but Italians look more European than Greeks or Turks"
1. Tell me what Europeans means (physically , politically, socially, religiously). Give me please the European prototype.
2. Tell me how many Italians have you seen. Assuming that you have seen as many as you covered the whole country, please describe me the Italian prototype!
3. Tell me how many Greeks have you seen. Assuming that you've seen as many as the whole country is covered, please describe the Greek prototype.
4. Do the same with the Turks.
Apply the European Template on each prototype.
Draw a line and get the conclusion. Let us know which you final conclusion is.
Thank you!
Sergiu P.
1. Tell me what Europeans means (physically , politically, socially, religiously). Give me please the European prototype.
2. Tell me how many Italians have you seen. Assuming that you have seen as many as you covered the whole country, please describe me the Italian prototype!
3. Tell me how many Greeks have you seen. Assuming that you've seen as many as the whole country is covered, please describe the Greek prototype.
4. Do the same with the Turks.
Apply the European Template on each prototype.
Draw a line and get the conclusion. Let us know which you final conclusion is.
Thank you!
Sergiu P.
Oh, I agree 100% that there are no "real greeks" living today in Greece. The population that now lives in Greece is mostly turkish and arab (who spoke greek as it was easy to integrate in the society) and this has been proved by computerized analysis of demographic progression of population and races, performed many times in respective Institutes in the West and East. No matter that some voices here speak from a nationalistic background (usual in the Balkans), we must all agree that "old real greeks" are nothing but a very distant memory in our consience.
It is a very interesting point that needs more attention the fact mentioned here about the African influence in the todays' greeks and their modern language.
Greek language is not funny, just very hard and basically useless for any non-greek to waste time and try to learn some of it, but I must add that greeks do look a little like iranians like someone here mentioned. But I have no idea why that is though...
Thanks Brennus for your comments.
It is a very interesting point that needs more attention the fact mentioned here about the African influence in the todays' greeks and their modern language.
Greek language is not funny, just very hard and basically useless for any non-greek to waste time and try to learn some of it, but I must add that greeks do look a little like iranians like someone here mentioned. But I have no idea why that is though...
Thanks Brennus for your comments.
...Poor Sotiris...lol...it's a little funny to us, but I believe not to him...
I think that greeks look like arabs more than any other European nation and I absolutely don't mean this as an insult. I just want people to know how a common norwegian like me thinks about greeks' apearance. But don't worry greek brothers, we will still call you Europeans, no matter how you all look like because we love you all. And who cares if you are 1/2 turks or 100% turks who speak greek, you already belong to Europe.
@ Ion
Dear Ion,
It would be impossible to convice you at this point because it is the same as convincing an individual that he/she looks like someone lets say in a movie (an actor or so..) and who has ever been in that position knows that almost all the times, people you are talking to, cannot see the usually striking similarities that the other can see. The same goes for greeks in this case. Everyone can see that they look like turks (sometimes like arabs) and they (greeks) are the only ones who cannot because this is a normal process of "visual negation" that comes from deep processes in the human mind.
I don't believe that Africans have influenced the greek language. Maybe at some degree their geene formation, but not as much as would be considered important.
@ Ion
Dear Ion,
It would be impossible to convice you at this point because it is the same as convincing an individual that he/she looks like someone lets say in a movie (an actor or so..) and who has ever been in that position knows that almost all the times, people you are talking to, cannot see the usually striking similarities that the other can see. The same goes for greeks in this case. Everyone can see that they look like turks (sometimes like arabs) and they (greeks) are the only ones who cannot because this is a normal process of "visual negation" that comes from deep processes in the human mind.
I don't believe that Africans have influenced the greek language. Maybe at some degree their geene formation, but not as much as would be considered important.
It's interesting how so many race purists gathered here all of a sudden. And here I was, thinking Hitler was dead... you can't tell me what I am and what I am not based on a gene analysis that never happened. If you have your own complexes about your own genetic mix, keep it to yourself. A nation is not its genes. And it's interesting how all you "pure" nations purposefully avoid to disclose your own "pure" nationality. But I guess, having failed to prove that Greek and Turkish are anything alike language-wise, you had to focus somewhere else... I for one have never been genetically tested, and I doubt many people have, so percentages are drawn out of your ass - to put it nicely. And like I said, mixes have happened everywhere; so it is at least interesting to see how you people don't maintain that there are no "real" nations generally, but specifically no real Greeks or Turks. Where are you from yourselves, you nice pure beings?
"you already belong to Europe"
Seeing that "Europe" is a Greek word to begin with, I would certainly think so.
As for Turks, do read where the first Turkish wave came from and what they looked like, and then we can discuss who looks like whom.
Seeing that "Europe" is a Greek word to begin with, I would certainly think so.
As for Turks, do read where the first Turkish wave came from and what they looked like, and then we can discuss who looks like whom.
I also think that greeks look like arabs but I don't consider myself any purist or racist or whatever names Calliope here referred to someone in a very offending manner. It is a simple perception that greeks should not be paranoid or angry about. There is nothing wrong with looking like an arab, what is wrong with you, are you racist?
Greek language is a very hard language to learn. I tried once to learn at least the basics, but gave up in a matter of days. Instead, I learned French and I'm pretty good at it right now. I like greek/turkish food a lot :-)
Greek language is a very hard language to learn. I tried once to learn at least the basics, but gave up in a matter of days. Instead, I learned French and I'm pretty good at it right now. I like greek/turkish food a lot :-)
Dan and Marie,
The only effect you create on me is that you make me smile. Smile with understanding, with tollerance.
Put only your both opinion together and draw a conclusion. I might have a heavy head but make me understand, as stupid as I am, how thw Turks are looking , or what /who the Turks are?
Marie, because you speak about this genetic studies done after Mengeles initiative, what is the composition or the DNA of the Turks?
Then, tell me Dan, from your Nordweg (Norway), what kind of contacts or studies did you make about the Greeks to be able to contradict a Romanian like me who not only knows the history of Balkans, but knows the Greeks, the Turks, the Serbs, the Croationa, the Bulgars, Albanians as per personal pockets?
You know what, that is my last intervention on this subject because you are not here to prove something you realy knw, you are just trying to upset people like Sotiris and other. It is prety patetic what you are trying to do.
Before I leave, Dan , I think that this time you are the actor...You and Marie who is 100% sure that the Greeks are Turks and Arabs...and of course all other like you. If this is what you think, continue to think it, live like that, in fact it is only your problem. But doon't ever tell a Greek that he is a Turk, because you will see Turkish!
The only effect you create on me is that you make me smile. Smile with understanding, with tollerance.
Put only your both opinion together and draw a conclusion. I might have a heavy head but make me understand, as stupid as I am, how thw Turks are looking , or what /who the Turks are?
Marie, because you speak about this genetic studies done after Mengeles initiative, what is the composition or the DNA of the Turks?
Then, tell me Dan, from your Nordweg (Norway), what kind of contacts or studies did you make about the Greeks to be able to contradict a Romanian like me who not only knows the history of Balkans, but knows the Greeks, the Turks, the Serbs, the Croationa, the Bulgars, Albanians as per personal pockets?
You know what, that is my last intervention on this subject because you are not here to prove something you realy knw, you are just trying to upset people like Sotiris and other. It is prety patetic what you are trying to do.
Before I leave, Dan , I think that this time you are the actor...You and Marie who is 100% sure that the Greeks are Turks and Arabs...and of course all other like you. If this is what you think, continue to think it, live like that, in fact it is only your problem. But doon't ever tell a Greek that he is a Turk, because you will see Turkish!
"I also think that greeks look like arabs but I don't consider myself any purist or racist or whatever names Calliope here referred to someone in a very offending manner. It is a simple perception that greeks should not be paranoid or angry about. There is nothing wrong with looking like an arab, what is wrong with you, are you racist?"
You missed my point. My problem is not whether you perceive us looking like Arabs. My problem is people stating there are no real Greeks, *because* in their opinion we look like Arabs. Like I said, pretending one's own nation is "pure" and basically forbidding another nation to claim their nationality because of mixes is too nazistic for my taste.
There is nothing wrong with Arabs and I have no problem with people thinking we look like them - after all, we can't tell northern nations apart because they all look the same to us. It's normal to make groups in your head focusing on the most prominent common characteristics when it comes to traits you are not used in seeing around you.
You missed my point. My problem is not whether you perceive us looking like Arabs. My problem is people stating there are no real Greeks, *because* in their opinion we look like Arabs. Like I said, pretending one's own nation is "pure" and basically forbidding another nation to claim their nationality because of mixes is too nazistic for my taste.
There is nothing wrong with Arabs and I have no problem with people thinking we look like them - after all, we can't tell northern nations apart because they all look the same to us. It's normal to make groups in your head focusing on the most prominent common characteristics when it comes to traits you are not used in seeing around you.