Romanian Language - Eastern Romance languages

A Romanian visitor   Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:22 pm GMT
Contrary to many popular beliefs, Romanian (the language spoken in Romania) is not the only Romance language derived from Proto-Romanian (Ancient Romanian)

Daco-Romanian language (spoken in Romania) is just one variety of the Eastern Romance group.

1. The Romanian language spoken in Romania is linguistically called Daco-Romanian (named after Dacia – the country before the Roman conquest) and there are 3 other Eastern Romance languages (Vlach languages) derived from PROTO-ROMANIAN derived from Balkan Vulgar Latin.

2.The old Daco-Romanian was the earliest language to be isolated from Vulgar Latin, being the oldest Romance language along with (Limba Sarda) Sardinian. In both languages LIMBA means Language.
Languages derived from PROTO-ROMANIAN (Eastern Romance languages)

-Daco-Romanian (official language of Romania, spoken in Ukraine,Bulgaria, Serbia,Moldova,Hungary)
-Aromanian (spoken in Greece, Albania, Serbia, Bulgaria, Macedonia)
-Megleno-Romanian (spoken in Macedonia, Greece)
-Istro-Romanian (spoken in Istria Croatia )

Eastern Romance languages

Aromanian was the first language that separated from Proto-Romanian in the 9th century, followed by Megleno-Romanian. Finally Istro-Romanian was the last language separated from Daco-Romanian in the 11th century.

After 1000 years of separation and local influences, these 4 languages are still mutually intelligible forming the Eastern Romance language group.
As anyone can see the entire Balkan Peninsula from Greece to Romania is still inhabited by the Vlachs (Vlach a Germanic word denominating Latin people) preserving the Eastern Romance languages spoken by some 30 million people.

Daco-Romanian (language of Romania) is still very closely related with Sicilian and other Southern Italian idioms.

Every single Eastern Romance language was gradually influenced by other local languages, but still preserved the Romance unity after 1000 years of separation and are still mutually intelligible.

Aromanian text:
Vocala easti un son dit zburărea-a omlui, faptu cu triţearea sonoră, libiră ş-fără cheadică, a vimtului prit canalu sonor

Daco-Romanian (modern Romanian)
Vocala este un sunet din vorbirea omului, făcut cu trecerea sonoră, liberă şi fără piedică, a vîntului prin canalul sonor

If anyone here attempts to discuss the Daco-Romanian language or the Eastern Romance languages, then they should take in consideration the following Eastern Romance languages:

Aromanian (spoken in Greece, Albania, Serbia, Bulgaria, Macedonia)
Megleno-Romanian (spoken in Macedonia, Greece)
Istro-Romanian (spoken in Istria Croatia)

These languages evolved independently for a period of 1000 years but are still mutually intelligible and part of the Eastern Romance group.

Thanks for reading!
eu   Thu Mar 22, 2007 2:21 pm GMT
Romanule vizitator, bine ai venit! Nu fi surprins de lipsa de replici pe tema ta...istoria limbii noastre nu place multora; vor ca noi sa invatam istoria inventata de ei...daca ai chef si nimic mai bun de facut, intra pe mai multe subiecte legate de limba noastra si te vei lamuri. Asta nu este un forum de calitate. Fiecare analfabet isi da cu presupusul cum il taie capul... deci trebuie inteles si acceptat ca atare! Cred ca l-ai luat mult prea in serios!

Respectele mele!
I hate spam   Fri Mar 23, 2007 12:43 am GMT
how many romanian languages are then ? what a mess, i have never heard of aromanian before...what language do you speak in romania?
eu   Fri Mar 23, 2007 12:28 pm GMT
I hate spam

You don't understand anything baout languages, Spam...Aromanian is a Romanian dialect. Shotly, a dialect is a accentuated geographical or social variety of speech...can be found in any language; so is meglenoromanian, istroromanian and so on...
Guest   Sat Mar 24, 2007 3:39 pm GMT
Acording to other sources Aromanian is a language not a dialect. Vlach language (magleno romanian ) is a language not a romanian dialect, and is not spoken in Romania at all.
Pete   Sat Mar 24, 2007 3:51 pm GMT
<<You don't understand anything baout languages, Spam...Aromanian is a Romanian dialect. Shotly, a dialect is a accentuated geographical or social variety of speech...can be found in any language; so is meglenoromanian, istroromanian and so on...>>

Don't tell the other guy that he dons't understand, when the one who didn't get the idea was you. A Romanian Visitor explained for us, that there is a group of eastern Romance languages includes more languages than we thought. The eastern romance group, in which most people, included me, thought that had Romanian as only member of the group; actually includes the other languages aforementioned, they evolved differently.

It's like Ibero-Romance languages, that Includes Spanish, Portuguese, Galego, Asturian, Aragonese, etc. Languages which are all mutually intelligible.

But Romanian Visitor, I read Istro-Romanian (spoken in Istria Croatia ) is a dead language already since its last native speaker was killed some years ago... It's a pity. It's cool to travel abroad and find someone speaking another language but that can understand what you say and viceversa.

Kind regards

Pete from Peru
eu   Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:20 pm GMT

You visited so many places and pretend to know better than me, a Romanian, what the Romanian dialects are... Your previous statements where more balanced and of a common sense than this one? The fact that you travelled a lot is in your acceptance enough to make statements as those you made here about the Romanian language?

Pete, here is the thing:

- Aromanian dialect is spoken by at least 30,000 people in Romania (World Aromanions Union is mentioning 50,000);

- Meglenoromanian, ( you don't know but find out that some of them) are living in Romania as well, in Cerna especially, in Tulcea County, and in Banat region as well.

- Istroromanian is spoken today by cca 1000 people only and this people call themselves Vlasi or Rumani, but are called Ciribiri/Cici by the Croatian/local population and Vlachs by linguists;
Many of their villages have (normally) Romanian names like Jeian, Buzet, Catun, Gradinje, Sucodru, Castirceanu etc. Some of the names are officially recognised by Croatia while some are used only by Istro-Romanian speakers.

The Aromnians, Megleno-Romanians and Istro-Romanians have been isolated from the rest of Romanians beginning with the 9th century. Remaining isolated and especially discriminated by the other in region, penetrated nations, the language didn't evolved in the same rhythm as the main one did it . On the other hand, the occupations (these people where shepherds, mining workers) contributed even more to the language maintaining within its old limits, isolating it even more. That was the moment when these separated Romanians started to lose the steps the Romanian language evolution which eventually ended up with an elevated form, called literary Romanian. The isolated groups "were helped" by governments of the countries where the where "surprised" by new borders lines, to "evolve" in the rhythm of step dance.. This is what's given the language spoken by these Romanians, the characteristics of dialect. While the regionalisms are not distancing themselves from the literary language, the dialects are usually, more difficult to understand ...they are remaining behind, (no reforms are made, reduced accessibility to neologisms etc). ( Even so, strongly isolated for more than a millennium, the Aromanian, Istro-Romanian and Meglenoromanian dialects are much more easier to be deciphered by a literary speaking Romanian, then is for example, for a German from Germany, to understand another German from Swisserland).

Initially, all these Romanians have spoken the same proto-Romanian language, with minor differences , more of an accent nature , (regionalisms) as it can be noticed today between Moldavian, Wallachians and Transylvanians.

Due to specific foreign political interests (I don't want to go into details here), this insistence of today, considering Aromanians, Istro-Romanians, Megleno-Romanians of other ethnicity than Romanian determine many of you to really believe that Romanian and Aromanian are two different languages - similar to Italian and Romanian for example.

Before the separation, all of them, Romanians, Aromanians, Mgleno-Romanians and Istro-Romanians have been called by other nations Vlachs. The term "Vlach" is originally an exonym. All the Vlach groups used various words derived from ROMANUS to refer to themselves: Români, Rumâni, Rumâri, Aromâni, Arumâni etc.
The Megleno-Romanians nowadays call themselves "Vlashi", but historically called themselves "Rămâni"; The Istro-Romanians also adopted the name Vlashi, but still use Rumâni and Rumâri to refer to themselves.

Getting conclusion by travelling is not safe at all to make statements about people's origins, peoples languages etc. This world is full of bulshit, the real truth, beginning with the field of medicine to the one of history is in a huge percent avoided or hidden. We need to read, to search and research by ourselves and to learn the tools of doing searches and researches in order to get to the right conclusions because almost everything what is politically or financial connected, is mystified.

In conclusion, I recommend you to be aware that not everything what flies, can be eaten... Romanians fought for centuries for their existence. Many of the Romanians deniers wished, we weren't alive today... that's why many of us are so sensitive and react so explosive hearing false theory. For many of us it is insulting to force the lie to replace the truth.

Ask the Vlachs what they think about they origin. Ask Hagi, the Romanian soccer player who is an aromaninan, what he thinks, is he in fact? If he were a Serbian, a Hungarian, Bulgarian or Greek, do you think that he would be ashamed to not recognised it? Ask another two great soccer players who played for Romania, Boloni and Belodedici, which their origins are. They will say, Hungarian (Boloni) and Serbian (Belodedic). And they will also say that with the same sincerity as Hagi would say that he is Romanian! I personally am not bothered by what other people are saying about my origin, my language etc because first, it is their right to say whatever they want and secondly, and the most important, I know, what I am and who I am. I know better than you, and everybody else...

All the best to you and Peru! (What is Cubillas doing?)
Guest   Mon Mar 26, 2007 5:39 pm GMT
For Romanian speakers: I've a question
We all know that Romanian is a romance language and in various forum of antimoon I read that many people consider it very near to italian language.....Now here' s my question: for you, romanian speakers, wich is the realationship between romanian and italian? are these two languages mutually intellegible? Are you able to understand spoken italian even without an interpeter (so as portouguese can easly understand spoken spanish) or not?
I will be glad if someone answer me. Thank you.
eu   Mon Mar 26, 2007 7:02 pm GMT
I can only speak for myself; I never learned Italian but about Italian spoken in TV, I can say that I understand almost everything. There are some words what I don't know the meanings for but I never had a problem understanding the sentence, the message or the idea.

To understand Italian, for me it is crucial to be spoken literary!

At a smaller scale it happens with Spanish too....I understand Spanish also, many words and almost all the transmiteted messages, ideas etc.. If written even better.

Totally different is the case with Portuguese. Maybe because of the accents, I don't know but I barely understand something when is spoken. I do understand it if it is written.
Zek   Tue Mar 27, 2007 5:10 pm GMT
Eastern Romance languages?

Tell me one except romanian
Alba   Tue Mar 27, 2007 5:41 pm GMT
Maybe Albanian is an Eastern Romance language, who knows? since its closely related to Romanian...but historians never do enough research on Albanian for some reason :(
Zek   Tue Mar 27, 2007 6:56 pm GMT
If Albanian is a romance language,then it couldn't be illyrian,as most albanians say

I would say vlach variations,but they are close to romanian

What about Moldovan?
is mutually intelligible to romanian?
Alba   Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:06 pm GMT
Well it has to be one of them, lol. And Moldovan is just a different dialect of Romanian, like Kosovar Albanian.
Josh Lalonde   Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:29 pm GMT
<<If Albanian is a romance language,then it couldn't be illyrian,as most albanians say >>

Albanian is definitely not a Romance language; I've never even heard of anyone suggesting that. Whether it is descended from Illyrian or not is still debated, but I don't know why you say that it couldn't be Illyrian.
As for other Eastern Romance languages, A romanian visitor listed some in the first post of this thread. And yes, Moldovan is just a dialect of Romanian, according to most linguists.
Alba   Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:50 pm GMT
I know that "Moldovan" is a weird term like "Kosovar" or "Cypriote". How do you know that its DEFINATELY NOT a Romance language though? Have you personally studied Albanian and Romanian? If so which dialect of Albanian have you studied, Tosk or Geg? Have you done research on this and are you 100% sure that Albanian is not a Romance language? Couldnt it be that AND Ilirian? lol

and the only people who say we are not Ilirians or our language isnt Ilirian are those that are anti-Albanian *cough* Greeks, *cough* Serbs.