A quien le interesa esta MIERDA?????
Do you like Brazilian Portuguese?
Someone said that all of Latin America is third world...actually none of it is, all the countries (possibly barring Argentina) are still developing, but that does not make them third world. They are second world, Africa is third world and africa alone, maybe soem coutnries in asia, but look at latin america and africa there is a big difference.
Wow the arguments between the portuguese can get very heated. I think because of all the seperation through the years, the Brazilians like to have a nationalistic feel with their country. Since seperated from portugal for so long that they developed culturally very different than mainland portuguese people kind of the same way the spanish speaking latin countries have developed are very culturally different from Spain and from each other though there are groups of countries with cultural similarities. I would disagree with most of the people in this post with one reason. This sort of linguistic discussion is part of the degree field that I am taking at college. Out of all the languages in the world portuguese is one of the few that varieties of that language has diverged the most. Yes the language varieties are quite similar when written, there is a enough differences in actual pronunciation that it could show a level of intelligability between two people from different dialectal forms. So for someone to write "oh I have no problems understanding the way they speak" you are just lying to yourself.
»»So for someone to write "oh I have no problems understanding the way they speak" you are just lying to yourself.»»
Sorry but I don't see your point. Anyone can learn a new language. Right? If we all can learn a new language what is the problem with Brazilians complaining that they are unable to understand variations of their own language. It might be a little challenging sometimes, but it should be a minor one.
Portuguese is a world language. It is spoken by so many different people and in so many different ways. As a Portuguese speaker, I am very much willing to learn as many variations as I possibly can of my first language. It is a challenge but a very rewarding one.
So, if you are a Portuguese speaker and you pretend that you won't understand another Portuguese speaker based on dialectal differences you are lying to yourself.
Sorry but I don't see your point. Anyone can learn a new language. Right? If we all can learn a new language what is the problem with Brazilians complaining that they are unable to understand variations of their own language. It might be a little challenging sometimes, but it should be a minor one.
Portuguese is a world language. It is spoken by so many different people and in so many different ways. As a Portuguese speaker, I am very much willing to learn as many variations as I possibly can of my first language. It is a challenge but a very rewarding one.
So, if you are a Portuguese speaker and you pretend that you won't understand another Portuguese speaker based on dialectal differences you are lying to yourself.
JGreco wrote
>>>Out of all the languages in the world portuguese is one of the few that varieties of that language has diverged the most.<<<
Based on what evidence?
>>>Out of all the languages in the world portuguese is one of the few that varieties of that language has diverged the most.<<<
Based on what evidence?
Portuguese belongs to the Romance group of languages. The Romance languages evolved from Latin.
For those who support that Brazileiro is not Portuguese, Question:
Is Brazileiro still a Romance language? If not, what is it? From where did Brazileiro evolve from?
For those who support that Brazileiro is not Portuguese, Question:
Is Brazileiro still a Romance language? If not, what is it? From where did Brazileiro evolve from?
>>>Is Brazileiro still a Romance language?<<<
What do you mean by "Brasileiro"? There are different regional varieties of Portuguese in Brazil as well as native languages. Which one are you refering?
What do you mean by "Brasileiro"? There are different regional varieties of Portuguese in Brazil as well as native languages. Which one are you refering?
Clarifying my question:
If Brazilian "Portuguese" still a Romance language??
If Brazilian "Portuguese" still a Romance language??
Brazilian Portuguese or simply Brazilian (Brasileiro) pages on Orbilat:
http://www.orbilat.com/Languages/Portuguese-Brazilian/
They were written by a Brazilian linguist who studied at USP,
the best Brazilian university and one of the top 100 universities in the world.
http://www.orbilat.com/Languages/Portuguese-Brazilian/
They were written by a Brazilian linguist who studied at USP,
the best Brazilian university and one of the top 100 universities in the world.
mjd* wrote:
>>>I myself never use the term "Brasileiro" when referring to the language spoken in Brazil, since it is Portuguese afterall, but it's obvious that Marianna is referring to the manner in which Portuguese is spoken in Brazil....i.e., "Brazilian Portuguese." Sure there are a lot of regional variants, but they all have common characteristics that make them part of Brazilian Portuguese as a whole. <<<
Maybe I did not make myself clear. Also in Brazil people say they speak Portuguese not Brazilian. But it was not that what I was trying to get at.
There is standard Brazilian Portuguese but it is not what people are defending as being a different language.
In most posts people make use of caipira or any other variant spoken in the countryside, assim como se fala na roça, to say they speak a different language. In Brazil if you speak or write like that in a bigger town there may be some wide smiles behind your back. What I was asking was to define the “language” that was being considered different because caipira or any other country variant it is not considered an educated way of speaking in Brazil. It has no prestige. You can consider it nitpicking but I am just curious.
>>>I myself never use the term "Brasileiro" when referring to the language spoken in Brazil, since it is Portuguese afterall, but it's obvious that Marianna is referring to the manner in which Portuguese is spoken in Brazil....i.e., "Brazilian Portuguese." Sure there are a lot of regional variants, but they all have common characteristics that make them part of Brazilian Portuguese as a whole. <<<
Maybe I did not make myself clear. Also in Brazil people say they speak Portuguese not Brazilian. But it was not that what I was trying to get at.
There is standard Brazilian Portuguese but it is not what people are defending as being a different language.
In most posts people make use of caipira or any other variant spoken in the countryside, assim como se fala na roça, to say they speak a different language. In Brazil if you speak or write like that in a bigger town there may be some wide smiles behind your back. What I was asking was to define the “language” that was being considered different because caipira or any other country variant it is not considered an educated way of speaking in Brazil. It has no prestige. You can consider it nitpicking but I am just curious.
Brazilian Portuguese
General Overview
Portuguese has undergone many transformations, both in the mother country and in its former colony, since the language was first introduced into Brazil in the 16th century. Although the two countries have, from time to time, standardized their spelling so that the written word remains mutually intelligible, pronunciations, vocabularies, and the meanings of words have diverged so widely that, it has been said, it is easier for some Brazilians to understand films in Spanish from other Latin-American countries than those from Portugal. New words and expressions in Brazilian Portuguese have been introduced by Italians, Germans, Japanese, and other immigrants and from across the borders with Spanish-speaking countries. One notable example is the universal use in Brazil of tchau, for farewell, adopted from the Italian ciao. Other words have entered through contact with foreign products and technologies.
Some authorities, however, suggest that the greatest divergence of the Brazilian language from the Portuguese goes back to contact with the Indians. The principal language spoken by the tropical forest peoples of Brazil, Tupian, or Tupí-Guaraní, became the lingua franca between the natives and the Portuguese traders, missionaries, adventurers, and administrators; it continued to be used similarly in the Amazon and western Brazil until the 19th century. The Tupian influence in Brazilian place-names is overwhelming, and it is estimated that thousands of indigenous words and expressions have entered the Brazilian Portuguese language. More generally, as a result of the Tupian influence Brazilian Portuguese became more nasal than that of the homeland, and Brazilians generally speak more slowly, pronouncing all the vowels.
General Overview
Portuguese has undergone many transformations, both in the mother country and in its former colony, since the language was first introduced into Brazil in the 16th century. Although the two countries have, from time to time, standardized their spelling so that the written word remains mutually intelligible, pronunciations, vocabularies, and the meanings of words have diverged so widely that, it has been said, it is easier for some Brazilians to understand films in Spanish from other Latin-American countries than those from Portugal. New words and expressions in Brazilian Portuguese have been introduced by Italians, Germans, Japanese, and other immigrants and from across the borders with Spanish-speaking countries. One notable example is the universal use in Brazil of tchau, for farewell, adopted from the Italian ciao. Other words have entered through contact with foreign products and technologies.
Some authorities, however, suggest that the greatest divergence of the Brazilian language from the Portuguese goes back to contact with the Indians. The principal language spoken by the tropical forest peoples of Brazil, Tupian, or Tupí-Guaraní, became the lingua franca between the natives and the Portuguese traders, missionaries, adventurers, and administrators; it continued to be used similarly in the Amazon and western Brazil until the 19th century. The Tupian influence in Brazilian place-names is overwhelming, and it is estimated that thousands of indigenous words and expressions have entered the Brazilian Portuguese language. More generally, as a result of the Tupian influence Brazilian Portuguese became more nasal than that of the homeland, and Brazilians generally speak more slowly, pronouncing all the vowels.
European vs. Brazilian Portuguese:
A Small Differentiating Glossary
by Bruno Oliveira Maroneze
There are many words and expressions which differ in meaning and usage in both sides of the Atlantic. Many of them are popular, colloquial and obscene words (which can cause serious misunderstandings!). But in both countries there are various regional peculiarities, and it is not rare for a word to be used both in Brazil and in some particular regions of Portugal (and vice-versa). So, in this small glossary, you may find words which are used, for example, in Portugal, and also dialectally in Brazil.
absolutamente: EP: “absolutely”. BP: “absolutely not”.
bizarro: EP: “smart”, “elegant”, or “kind”. BP: “weird”, “bizarre”.
cacete: EP: a kind of bread (French stick). BP: obscene word, meaning “penis”.
fa(c)to: a phonetic-phonological problem. In BP, the group [ct] was reduced to [t]. So, the word which in EP is pronounced ['faktu], in Brazil is pronounced ['fatu]. In EP, facto means “event”, and fato means “costume”, “suit”. In BP, fato (<= facto) means only “event”; for “costume” or “suit” the word terno is used.
freguesia: EP: an administrative division of the towns. BP: “clientele”, “customers”.
fresco and frio: two words that refer to low temperatures. In general, frio means “cold”, and fresco means “fresh”; frio is colder than fresco. But in EP, when one asks for água fresca, he wants “cold water”.
lousa: EP: “gravestone”. BP: “blackboard”
mama and peito: these words refer to the breasts. Peito may also refer to the chest (also for men). In BP, mama is a technical term (cáncer de mama: breast cancer); peito is an obscene word (que peitos grandes!: what huge tits!). In EP, mama is used in this obscene sense (que grandes mamas!: what huge tits!)
moça and rapariga: in BP, moça is used to refer to young ladies (aquela moça: that young lady); in EP, the word is considered rude (because it was used to refer to servants); instead, the words senhorita (little lady), menina (girl) or rapariga may be used. Rapariga means “young lady” in EP, but in BP, means “concubine” (in an offensive sense) or even “prostitute”.
puto: EP: “boy”. BP: “male homosexual” (in BP, puto is considered the masculine form of puta “prostitute”); also used to offend a man (aquele puto!: that son of a b****!); puto may also mean “money” in negative emphatic sentences like não tenho um puto!: “I don’t have any money!)
seis and meia: seis is the common word for “six”; meia (litterally “half”) is used only in BP, particularly when saying phone numbers (meia comes from the expression meia dúzia, “half dozen”).
talho: EP: “butcher’s shop”. BP: “cutting”
tamanduá and papa-formigas: this example illustrates the utilisation of indian names in BP. These two words refer to the mammal known in English as “ant-eater”. Tamanduá comes from Tupi, and is used only in BP; in EP, the animal is called papa-formigas (literally, “ant-eater”, “the one who eats ants”).
trem and comboio: in BP, trem means “train”, and comboio means “a group of transport vehicles”, “a convoy” (um comboio de ônibus: a group of buses). In EP, trem is not used; instead, they use comboio for “train”.
© 2001 Written for Orbis Latinus by Bruno Oliveira Maroneze.
A Small Differentiating Glossary
by Bruno Oliveira Maroneze
There are many words and expressions which differ in meaning and usage in both sides of the Atlantic. Many of them are popular, colloquial and obscene words (which can cause serious misunderstandings!). But in both countries there are various regional peculiarities, and it is not rare for a word to be used both in Brazil and in some particular regions of Portugal (and vice-versa). So, in this small glossary, you may find words which are used, for example, in Portugal, and also dialectally in Brazil.
absolutamente: EP: “absolutely”. BP: “absolutely not”.
bizarro: EP: “smart”, “elegant”, or “kind”. BP: “weird”, “bizarre”.
cacete: EP: a kind of bread (French stick). BP: obscene word, meaning “penis”.
fa(c)to: a phonetic-phonological problem. In BP, the group [ct] was reduced to [t]. So, the word which in EP is pronounced ['faktu], in Brazil is pronounced ['fatu]. In EP, facto means “event”, and fato means “costume”, “suit”. In BP, fato (<= facto) means only “event”; for “costume” or “suit” the word terno is used.
freguesia: EP: an administrative division of the towns. BP: “clientele”, “customers”.
fresco and frio: two words that refer to low temperatures. In general, frio means “cold”, and fresco means “fresh”; frio is colder than fresco. But in EP, when one asks for água fresca, he wants “cold water”.
lousa: EP: “gravestone”. BP: “blackboard”
mama and peito: these words refer to the breasts. Peito may also refer to the chest (also for men). In BP, mama is a technical term (cáncer de mama: breast cancer); peito is an obscene word (que peitos grandes!: what huge tits!). In EP, mama is used in this obscene sense (que grandes mamas!: what huge tits!)
moça and rapariga: in BP, moça is used to refer to young ladies (aquela moça: that young lady); in EP, the word is considered rude (because it was used to refer to servants); instead, the words senhorita (little lady), menina (girl) or rapariga may be used. Rapariga means “young lady” in EP, but in BP, means “concubine” (in an offensive sense) or even “prostitute”.
puto: EP: “boy”. BP: “male homosexual” (in BP, puto is considered the masculine form of puta “prostitute”); also used to offend a man (aquele puto!: that son of a b****!); puto may also mean “money” in negative emphatic sentences like não tenho um puto!: “I don’t have any money!)
seis and meia: seis is the common word for “six”; meia (litterally “half”) is used only in BP, particularly when saying phone numbers (meia comes from the expression meia dúzia, “half dozen”).
talho: EP: “butcher’s shop”. BP: “cutting”
tamanduá and papa-formigas: this example illustrates the utilisation of indian names in BP. These two words refer to the mammal known in English as “ant-eater”. Tamanduá comes from Tupi, and is used only in BP; in EP, the animal is called papa-formigas (literally, “ant-eater”, “the one who eats ants”).
trem and comboio: in BP, trem means “train”, and comboio means “a group of transport vehicles”, “a convoy” (um comboio de ônibus: a group of buses). In EP, trem is not used; instead, they use comboio for “train”.
© 2001 Written for Orbis Latinus by Bruno Oliveira Maroneze.
Vale lembrar que grande parte dos colonos vinham para o Brasil sem mulheres e viviam com mulheres indígenas, assim, a língua "brasílica" (nheengatu) passou a ser a língua materna de seus filhos, especialmente nas áreas mais afastadas do centro administrativo da colônia, a Bahia. O nheengatu era língua comum entre os portugueses, descendentes, e também seus escravos, inclusive os africanos. A partir da segunda metade do século 17, a língua "brasílica" sofreu várias modificações, passando a ser chamada de língua geral, que foi falada até 1758. Este ano é considerado a morte do tupi no Brasil, que foi quando o Marquês de Pombal, em nome do rei Dom José I, proibiu o ensino e o uso do tupi em todo o território nacional, instituindo o português como única língua do Brasil.
Depois disso é que houve uma retomada do português na colônia com seu ensino normativo, provavelmente. Mas vale a pena também lembrar que o sistema educacional brasileiro praticamente foi a zero na época Pombalina.
Depois disso é que houve uma retomada do português na colônia com seu ensino normativo, provavelmente. Mas vale a pena também lembrar que o sistema educacional brasileiro praticamente foi a zero na época Pombalina.