help with meaning

Pos   Thu Jul 26, 2007 10:06 pm GMT
<Their simply is no other choice.>

Oops! <<There>>
beneficii   Thu Jul 26, 2007 10:11 pm GMT

Didn't your teacher ever tell you not to argue with a native speaker on usage?
beneficii   Thu Jul 26, 2007 10:20 pm GMT
As further clarification, native speakers do have a tendency to mix up prepositions. The reason why "to" would be acceptable in this case, is because when you use it, you are imagining the transition from its being one thing to another. It's sort of the way like native speakers like to say "different than" as opposed to the more proper "different from."
Pos   Thu Jul 26, 2007 10:30 pm GMT
<Didn't your teacher ever tell you not to argue with a native speaker on usage? >

OMG, no! He told me to question even native advice. Why do you ask? Is there somewhere in this thread that a native was right and I was wrong?
Pos   Thu Jul 26, 2007 10:32 pm GMT
In this example, Ben, the error is clearly nonnative.

<<We're going to pass a bill to force the Congress cafeteria to rename "French fries" to "freedom fries." That'll show 'em!<< >>

But you go on using it if you think it's OK:
beneficii   Thu Jul 26, 2007 10:37 pm GMT

It's not. Why don't we get another in here and see what they say? And what authoritative book are you getting it from that says you can't say "rename A to B"? Additionally, I had added it to prevent the double-quoted statements from being right next to each other.
beneficii   Thu Jul 26, 2007 10:42 pm GMT
Here's a website with computer programmers using the "rename to" thing:

From what I understand, you're not a native speaker and you like to post under ghost names. Please, remember, do not argue with native speakers in terms of usage, unless it's for formal writing or speech.
Pos   Thu Jul 26, 2007 10:45 pm GMT
<Please, remember, do not argue with native speakers in terms of usage, unless it's for formal writing or speech. >

Please remember, do not dictate the law to me, son. Your argument above sounds like the ones I've heard many nonnatives use when they've made an error in usage.

rename to (nonnative)
rename as( native)

Nuff said.
Pos   Thu Jul 26, 2007 10:48 pm GMT
Better still..."rename" and no preposition.
Pos   Thu Jul 26, 2007 10:52 pm GMT
Find us a "to" here Bene:

1 B1N informant was translating from the Gaelic. At least JTR did not then rename the spot as so many others of his class and time did
2 CH2 ask for it to be changed. "Perhaps we should rename the close Coronation Street or Brookside." JILL CASHIERED FRANK CORLESS
3 CMC mines at Ekrund in the Dragonback Mountains fall to Orcs who rename the place Mount Bloodfang. Goblins take over the Dwarf watch towers
4 CTF into a new company, Control Data Systems Inc, and rename the software and computer services rump of the company Ceridian Corp.
5 HAC to open a file and find that you would prefer to rename the file or delete it. Normally this requires a visit to
6 HJA n't get into the document at all, you will have to rename the previous version (the one with the. BAK extension)
7 HKR multiparty elections in Slovenia in April. The conference decided to rename the party the LCS --; Party of Democratic Renewal. Cyril Ribicic
8 HKT 20 voted by a large majority to accept a proposal to rename the state the Czech and Slovak Federative Republic (CSFR),
9 HLT submitted for public discussion until March 1. Deputies voted to rename the Supreme Soviet the Uluk Kenesh, and on Dec. 9 accepted
10 HRB "finest specimens", of which he was later to rename the Adelaide parakeet "in the very streets of the city of
11 HWF too long to allow entry into LIFESPAN. The user should rename the file so that it does not exceed the LIFESPAN maximum filename length
12 K1T to be put on display, there are no plans to rename the pub The Old Nag's Head. ANDREW TRYTHALL Water bills
13 K4T , James (possibly a relation of John) decided to rename the Alma the Jubilee Hotel, but in 1878 John Wharlton converted
Pos   Thu Jul 26, 2007 10:54 pm GMT
Mind, if you're so keen on prepositions, you could use "change to". That'd save a lot of to-ing and fro-ing on this thread.
beneficii   Thu Jul 26, 2007 11:20 pm GMT

With regards to your examples, you're seeing only what you want to see.
Guest   Thu Jul 26, 2007 11:51 pm GMT
<With regards to your examples, you're seeing only what you want to see. >

I'm seeing bad English. You?
beneficii   Fri Jul 27, 2007 12:02 am GMT
How about this:

You're going to be drowned in a series of examples of "rename to" if you'll just look. As I said, you see only what you want to see. As for the "bad English" comment, it may be bad in terms of what a prescriptivist would say, but it is commonly used.

Unfortunately, I doubt even this will sway you (I don't think really anything will sway you). I know, from reading your other posts on this forum, that you are not a native speaker, but you are trying to use artificial means to become like a native speaker. Now, I believe you are trying to show how much of a native speaker you can be like by believing you can declare whether others are native speakers or not by how they use the language. Let me just say that, at least with me, you score 0.

This situation reminds me of a case when I tried to convince another forum long back that .9 (repeating) = 1. Of course, I even gave them a link to math experts:

but they still wouldn't bye it. It wasn't until another user came in and spoke in simpler terms to them that it was the case, that they finally bought it.

So perhaps this will require others coming into the thread to finally convince you?
furrykef   Fri Jul 27, 2007 12:38 am GMT
I strongly prefer "rename X to Y" over "rename X Y" or "rename X as Y". Using "to" is certainly not an error only made by non-natives. I think the usage of "rename to" probably comes from computer contexts, and is spreading toward other contexts from there. It probably has to do with the way computer users think of it: they think of it as an operation where you do something *to* a file. I can imagine that maybe prescriptivists might dislike "rename X to Y", but it is far from a "non-native error".

BTW, I feel that I must point out that in Pos's examples, 1, 5, 6, and 11 didn't even have an equivalent of this construction, as "rename" took only a direct object. I think these include the only computer examples. I'm not sure what's going on in example 10... I think I need more context.

- Kef