Question For Non Navite Spanish Speakers

MJGR   Tue Nov 29, 2005 10:13 am GMT
I am from Spain and I believe that in my country people don't use to have problems with the subjunctive. Perhaps in South America they have as the language seems to have been simplified after being absorbed by the natives. But I do not know by sure.

i don't want to sound jingoistic, but I believe that the most standard Spanish is spoken in Spain. For example, in South America the letter 'z' and the letter 's' have the same sound. However in Spain, 'z' is pronounced like 'th' in thought, what makes it easier for us to avoid some spelling mistakes.

We don't use "vos" in Spain as *CarlosS* have said. It is an archaic form I believe is only used in Argentine (and in some movies). However, it is true that our way of pronouncing can seem pretty strange for South Americans who have just arrived to Spain. What results pretty surprising for us.
Cro Magnon   Tue Nov 29, 2005 7:15 pm GMT
<= We don't use "vos" in Spain as *CarlosS* have said. It is an archaic form I believe is only used in Argentine (and in some movies). However, it is true that our way of pronouncing can seem pretty strange for South Americans who have just arrived to Spain. What results pretty surprising for us. =>

Interesting. According the the books I read, "vos" was used in Spain but not in America.
Sigma   Tue Nov 29, 2005 7:21 pm GMT
En España usan "Vosotros", pero el "vos" se usa en Argentina.
En América no se usa "Vosotros" en ningún país hispano.
Truth   Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:25 am GMT
My mom's a whore... That's the truth...
Ed   Wed Nov 30, 2005 2:32 am GMT
I learned Spanish by watching telenovelas lol Well, mostly that way, but I also took some classes in high school. I don't think it's a difficult language, which is good, because more people would be able to speak it. I don't agree that Colombian Spanish is the clearest and easiest to understand O_o. I find it very nasal and slurred. This one Venezuelan girl told me once that she couldn't understand them sometimes. I think the easiest accent to understand is the Mexican one, because they pronounce everything clearly, not like some Caribbean accents, for example, where half the sounds get lost somewhere in their throats lol.
It really annoys me when native speakers misspell words (interchanging "v" and "b", omitting "h" or placing it where it doesn't belong), and also some certain grammatical mistakes like "haiga" instead of "haya" O_o
Guest   Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:15 am GMT
Compared to English, I found Spanish is quite difficult -- in fact, I never could get the hang of it (especially in output mode).

My theory: If you learn English first, its simplicity spoils you, and makes it really tough to learn other languages, unless you've got a real knack for them.

Of course, there are good points -- spelling isn't too bad (in the dictionary, you can actually succeed in finding spoken words that you hear), plurals are pretty regular, and nouns and adjectives aren't inflected too much. But you do have those horribly complicated verbs with all those obscure tenses (especially the subjunctive -- do they really need two different forms for the past subjunctive?). Then there's also that impossible-to-pronounce "rr" sound.
Guest   Wed Nov 30, 2005 4:57 am GMT
I'm a native Spanish speaker, and I agree that many Spanish speakers have grammatical problems. I don't, however, see why it's so difficult to remember all the tenses and funky spellings (where does that H, S, C, Z, G, or J really go?) (for a Spanish speaker). I think that knowing them, and recognizing where to use them is important, even if you don't when you speak informally.

In my Spanish AP class, we're going over the subjunctive tenses.
Sigma   Wed Nov 30, 2005 12:26 pm GMT
>=mistakes like "haiga" instead of "haya" O_o>=

Well I don't want to sound racist but here in Mexico the ones that make that mistake more often are Mexican Indians, they confuse the sound (and many others) most of the time, Mexican Spaniards never have any problems with that.
Sigma   Wed Nov 30, 2005 12:32 pm GMT
There's another common mistake made by Mexican Indians the sound "pt" in words like : "concepto" (concept) they pronounce it "concecto" which sounds very very nasty.

Another mistake is the "por que" they say "pos" to shorten it.

You can identify in Mexico which persons have more Spaniard, Indian or Mixed blood by the way they speak.
Ed   Wed Nov 30, 2005 6:49 pm GMT
<<Another mistake is the "por que" they say "pos" to shorten it.>>

I thought "pos" was the shortened form of "pues".
Guest   Thu Dec 01, 2005 3:34 am GMT
>>>I think the easiest accent to understand is the Mexican one...<<<

LOL!!! Yeah right...

>>>Well I don't want to sound racist but here in Mexico the ones that make that mistake more often are Mexican Indians, they confuse the sound (and many others) most of the time, Mexican Spaniards never have any problems with that.<<<

Peru's case as well.

>>>There's another common mistake made by Mexican Indians the sound "pt" in words like : "concepto" (concept) they pronounce it "concecto" which sounds very very nasty.<<<

Less common, but can also happen.

>>>Another mistake is the "por que" they say "pos" to shorten it.<<<

Interesting, I though "pos" was used to replace "pues". In Peru we don't use "pos" though, we use "pes", "ps" or "pe". These words started out as "vulgar" (and maybe they still are), but are very widely used by everyone because they're practical (especially in the MSN).
historybuff   Thu Dec 01, 2005 4:21 am GMT
<<It is easy to understand why the Spanish conquistadors almost always made the Mexicans and Amerindians they encountered in the New World learn Spanish rather than the other way around.>>

Please refrain from regurgitating biased outdated historical versions. Matthew Restall gives a more balanced account of the event that happened.
http://www.us.oup.com/us/catalog/general/subject/HistoryWorld/LatinAmerican/?view=usa&ci=0195160770

Seven Myths of the Spanish Conquest
Quote:

Restall also shows that the Spanish Conquest relied heavily on black and native allies, who provided many thousands of fighters, vastly outnumbering the conquistadors. In fact, the native perception of the Conquest differed sharply from the Spanish version--they saw it as a native civil war in which the Spaniards played an important but secondary role.
historybuff   Thu Dec 01, 2005 4:30 am GMT
>>the language seems to have been simplified after being absorbed by the natives. <<

Not simplified but evolved differently. Just like the current peninsular spanish variety has evolved differently from the one spoken in spain a hundred, 200, 300 etc, etc, years ago. And the natives didn't "absorb" the language through a magical proces. It was the european presence and the unions that followed that led to the language being adopted.
historybuff   Thu Dec 01, 2005 4:46 am GMT
>>Well I don't want to sound racist <<

Well it does

>>but here in Mexico the ones that make that mistake more often are Mexican Indians, <<

And the huge income disparity between the have's and have not's in Latin America can be attributed to this institutionalized racism found among the mostly "white" elite that tries to shift the blame of poverty of their underclass solely on their so-called "race". When it fact whether someone is "Indian" or not has very little to with it rather the treatment and lack of opportunities that are accesible to them due to nepotism, greediness and lack of empathy for their fellow man from those in positions of power and influence.
historybuff   Thu Dec 01, 2005 4:55 am GMT
>>To native Spanish speakers: What about Spanish from Spain? Do you consider it clear, and easy to understand? Or is there something about the vocabulary, accent, or style that makes it less "standard" than Colombian Spanish, for example?<<

Not really, it's just like any other spanish dialect. Although I will admit that it sounds rather coarse and harsh (this is not just my opinion, others have observed this as well) on the ears and thus I tend to believe that it sounds less sophisticated and quite vulgar at times. It's not like in the English speaking world where the European dialect (England RP) is held in high regard. The most melodic accents that I've have had the pleasure of hearing are the Colomiban and Chilean accents. But take into account that there always several accents within the ONE country. .