Question For Non Navite Spanish Speakers

As to the accents, I agree that Colombians are quite clear but it's not free of accent. Another pronunciations that don't cut too much the words are Mexicans, Salvadorians and Costa Ricans. The rest (Spaniards included) do cut or replace some letters, specially the letter "S" replacing it with a "J" or making it mute.

For me the best Spanish can be heard in the Mexican telenovelas and in the foreign movies translated in Mexico. Most of the time they try to speak a neutral (accent free) Spanish, except of course when the characters are living in rural areas.

<<I bet historybuff is a total "whitey". (Everyone point and laugh at the whitey!!)

We are not talking about racism and its effects on poverty.

I have been learning Spanish for several years now and I can clearly distinguish between many dialects. My friends are Mexican, Peruvian, Colombian, and Dominican. They all have different accents. I usually learn pronounciation from my Colombian and Peruvian friends because I favor the way they speak.

The people who come every week to our house to work on our yard speak no English and I speak to them in Spanish. They are Mexicans Indians and it is very, very, difficult to understand their Spanish. (When they speak to each other, they speak in an indigineous Mexican Indian language.)

It is not racist to say that Indians have less-desirable accents. White Argentines and White Spaniards sound just as harsh in my opinion.>>

Your an idiot

If someone wasnt idiotic enough to post a stupid "the low-class don't know how to speak proper Spanish" then we won't be arguing about racism you idiot.

Peste!

hwanmig;

Why are you so condescending towards the Mexican ACCENT? And the natives that inhabit Mexico? I would speculate that the Mexicans you hired were from the isolated rural places of Mexico. Then again it varies from region to region of Mexico;

Northern Mexico dialect sounds more sluggish and weaking on the vowels and use English idioms for Spanish words, henceforth Spanglish.


The east-coast of Mexico (veracruz and it's surrounding states) have more of an Carribean intonation and mute words at the antepenult of a word. Example; "lao" for "lado" etc. and aspirate the sibilant 's' (modestly)


The central south of Mexico in and around Jalisco and it's neighboring states; except for some parts of Michoacan. Speak a pleasant and jovial type of intonation & discourse and have the sibilant 's' in place whereas the north and east coast dialects do not or are aspirated. The Central and Southern states of Mexico have the "sibilant" s in place....especially in Jalisco. Where the half of it's population of Jalisco are of Spanish decent, use words from Spain like "Melocoton, crio, facer, cesped" along sided with the other typical words "durazno, nino, hacer, pasto" Respectively.

When I went to Jalisco last month, I've noticed a word that I haven't heard which is "habemos" I heard this from a local merchant in Jalisco , in which he said;

"habemos varios tipos de coches"

I asked him, what does that mean? He said "we have various types of cars." he also indicated to me, that it could also be used as to imply "we are" -somos- a striking feature....But he also mentioned to me that the word is used as a Idiom in Jalisco and other places.

For example: (idioms of Jalisco and other states of Mexico.)
pos/pues (popular amongst Mexicans)
habemos/tenemos (located in Jalisco and other places)
habemos/somos (located in Jalisco and other places)
de plano/de llano (popular amongst Mexicans)
fierro/hierro (popular amongst Mexicans: Used to refer to "Iron/metal/steal" when it comes to anatomy 'hierro' is ratherly used.)

etc.

Southern Mexican states of Mexico (consists of Indigenous type of intonation with the 'sibilant' -s- in place) some states of the south resemble to that of Central-south Mexican dialect and the others to that of East-coast of Mexico dialect, respectively.

Chiapas uses "vos" instead of "tu" and uses some central-american words, etc.

One thing I forgot to mention:

He said that it is -only- used to imply; "got/have" in the Plural sense.

There's no "yo habo", "tu habes", "ustedes haben?", "usted habe"; etc. (although, I've heard "haben" in usage.) example;


I heard this when I went to a theater In Jalisco.

IDIOM way: "ustedes ya lo haben visto?"

WHICH means: "have you others already seen it?"

CORRECT way: "ustedes ya lo han visto?"


We got various types of cars (English)

Habemos varios tipos de coches (Spanish of Jalisco, Mexico)
Used as a Idiom, while the correct standard from is used to.
More or less within places (used more in rural places like "los altos de Jalisco, more) and lesser in the Metropolitan areas of Jalisco like "Guadalajara."

Aldo,

This is VERY interesting to me, because I recall when I went to Jalisco like 4months ago, I'd went to a local store and this lady said the following:

"Disculpe senor! Habemos muchas frutas muy sabrosas....gustas?"

I didn't think much of it; because I thought she said "disculpe senor! abremos muchas frutas...etc. Which means "excuse me sir? We open many fruits..." This was in a small metropolitan area in a rural place of Jalisco, (tepatitlan). Anyways I think your right about that! It's funny because their using the classical latin way let me explain or elaborate a bit.

Habemus (classical-latin) "to have or we have"
Tenemus (classical-latin) "to hold or we hold"

Tenemos (Standard-Spanish)
"to have and to hold; we have or hold."

Dialect of Mexico, Jalisco (and other states?)
Habemos: to mean "we have or got" and can also be used to meaning "we are"

I think you get the idea, eh? I like to think this word is used in some places (preferly in RURAL-places)....which I think it's the case.

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Aldo wrote;

I heard this when I went to a theater In Jalisco.

IDIOM way: "ustedes ya lo haben visto?"

WHICH means: "have you others already seen it?"

CORRECT way: "ustedes ya lo han visto?"

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I wrote;

Hmmm, come to think of it I have use "haben" instead of "han" in some cases....I suppose it just comes more NATURALLY to me, also I've used "habe" instead of "he" (example; ya lo habe visto) This could be connected to Castilian-spanish, Because in Castilian Spanish there is -only- "habéis" (the only word maintained in it's original form in spanish.) In Classical-latin -habetis-:

I suppose this is where the dialect of Jalisco got "habe,haben & habemos" from either 'habeis' or it just coming out naturally like I have mentioned. It also happens to me at times (just 'habe & haben) habemos I've never used it....though it's a nice touch I must add. Or it could be the fact like you have noted on your poster that it's because of the "strong" Spanish influence, heritage & presence within Jalisco and borders.


he-ha-has-ha-han-hemos-habéis (Castilian)

habe-ha-has-ha-haben-habemos (Dialect of Jalisco, Mexico)*Idiom

habeo-habet-habes-habet-habent-habemus-habetis(Classical-latin)

he-ha-has-ha-han-hemos(Standard-spanish)

Whatever the case, thank you very much for informing me! And the rest.

Luis, I don't know if the Spanish is your mother language but I think your conclusions are very imaginative. I find such Mexican expression as mere localisms more than antique remains of Latin not different to "haiga".

No se dice "haiga" se dice "HAYA".

Haiga es usado solo por la gente sin traza de educación y esta MUY MAL DICHO, no existe esa expresión en Español Mexicano.

Why is it when I bring "Latin" in the picture I get all this anti-spanish type of scenarios...incredible.

All I have said about this, is that in Jalisco and amongst other places in Mexico they use such "idioms" and I NEVER said in my poster that it is or was a direct decendant of Latin or Classical; Aldo and I have mentioned that Jalisco possess's strong spanish influence, heritage and so forthed. Perhaps -habe--haben-habemos- is just a simpler or idiom way of saying 'he-han-hemos'
and just maybe* "habeis" used in Castilian-spanish was subsituted bby the SPANIARDS that inhabit Jalisco leaning towards "using" habe-haben-habemos CONTRADICTING the norm "he-han-hemos" who knows? Maybe their using old-spanish words....? Whatever it may be I sticking to what I heard and people whom I've talked to. (learn to read, folks)

I'm fluent in Spanish, I am Mexican. Native of Guanajuato (my surname derives from the Italians that migrated to Mexico from Venice, Italy. In 1882)


Words used in RURAL places and some are POPULAR amongst Mexicans:------------------------------->>>>>>>>>>>>>


fierro (popular) Old-spanish; and used in dialects of spain and some countries of latinamerica: fierro (=hierro)
de plano (popular) Old-spanish or Idiom: de plano (=de llano)
Ansina (rural) Old-spanish:ansina (=asi)
Mesmo(rural) Old-spanish: mesmo (=mismo)
Recámara (neutral) Italian: camera (=dormitorio,cuarto,habitacion
Tapete (neutral) Italian: tappeto (=alfombra) *used also in Spain
Flama (neutral) Old-spanish: flama (usado como: Reflejo o reverberación de la llama) (=llama)
Etc.

Luis,

<<Why is it when I bring "Latin" in the picture I get all this anti-spanish type of scenarios...incredible.>>

Primero, no tiene nada que ver con el Español pues es mi lengua materna.

<<I NEVER said in my poster that it is or was a direct decendant of Latin or Classical>>

La siguiente linea tuya dice lo opuesto:

<<It's funny because their using the classical latin way let me explain or elaborate a bit.

Habemus (classical-latin) "to have or we have"
Tenemus (classical-latin) "to hold or we hold">>

La verdad no es importante si asocias todo lo que existe en Español con el Latin pues FUE clara su influencia pero aun pienso que tus conclusiones tienen mucha imaginacion. No pretendo ser descortes ni nada por el estilo pero tal vez quieres justificar un uso tan terrible del Español como en:

"ustedes ya lo haben visto?" y "Habemos muchas frutas muy sabrosas"

"ustedes ya lo haben visto?" y "Habemos muchas frutas muy sabrosas"


Estas expresiones estan mal dichas, no existen en Español Mexicano Standar cuando menos.

to:Brennus, thanks for the info. You always have something "articulate" to profess.

to: Aldo_bangeran,

Aquellas frases y palabras que mencione son "usos" vulgares o modismos de la gramatica espanola-mexicana y es una manera de hablar; sin embargo son usadas por la gente. De hecho me hace pensar porque a ti te importa tanto? Con respecto a ti y los demas...solamente les quice informar que unos* (siendo la clave) de los modismos usados en el Espanol-Mexicano poseen palabras latinas (clasica) o (vulgar) & Espanol arcaico, respectivamente.

Por ejemplo: La palabra "pues" es usada conjunta con "pos"

Post (latin clasico y latin-vulgar)
Pos (Espanol arcaico y latin ultimamente) *Modismo de Mexico*
Pues (Espanol Moderno) Espanol-moderno

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"ustedes ya lo haben visto?" (si alguien le dijiese esta frase usted o otras personas no lo notarian facilmente.)

"Habemos muchas frutas muy sabrosas" (esta si lo notarian; porque es muy apreciable al oido y obviamente le preguntarian a la persona a lo que se refiere.)

I'm sorry, Hwanmig.

Have I displeased your "Chino" butt?

<<Con respecto a ti y los demas...solamente les quice informar que unos* (siendo la clave) de los modismos usados en el Espanol-Mexicano poseen palabras latinas (clasica) o (vulgar) & Espanol arcaico, respectivamente.>>

Si tu me dices que en Mexico el Latin es un curso obligado en las instituciones educativas dichos modismos podrian estar justificados de otro modo son simples abreviaciones populares de las palabras como en:

pues = pos
entonces = tons
ahora = ora
hermano = mano
para = pa
para alla = pa'lla
para aca = pa'ca

etc, etc.

<<De hecho me hace pensar porque a ti te importa tanto?>>

Esto es un foro de discusion aunque en realidad no me importa tanto como a ti pero me llama la atencion la relacion que haces de meros "dicharachos" (que viene de dictum) populares con el Latin.

<<Por ejemplo: La palabra "pues" es usada conjunta con "pos"

Post (latin clasico y latin-vulgar)
Pos (Espanol arcaico y latin ultimamente) *Modismo de Mexico*
Pues (Espanol Moderno) Espanol-moderno >>

Como dije, mucha imaginacion.

By the way Sigma, sorry, we transformed your posting in a "Question For Native Spanish Speakers"