Do English teachers in England speak RP? Should they?

Uriel   Sat Nov 05, 2005 2:14 am GMT
{Why should some Sceptic tank tell us Brits what accents to speak? }

Adam you're an idiot ! An American in UK is not called a (Sceptic tank ) is a called "Septic tank" (from yank)! You don't even know how to spell "septic"

I like "sceptic tank"! I'm pretty "sceptical" of most of Adam's pronouncements, anyway!
Kirk   Sat Nov 05, 2005 5:47 am GMT
Yes, I think "septic tank" is an interesting example of rhyming slang which occurs in certain varieties of UK British. We really don't have rhyming slang here (at least not on a widespread level--I've certainly never heard or used it as far as I'm aware) so it's interesting to see the forms people come up with.
Guest57   Sat Nov 05, 2005 6:43 am GMT
OK, so now let's say I decide to visit Manchester or the Merseyside area. How the fuck am I supposed to speak? Should I learn Scouse? Obviously speaking GAE will stereotype me as a "Sceptic tank", a foreign accent will label me as a "foreigner", and "RP" will label me as a snob. Besides, I don't see why I should try to adopt some local English accent when I feel comfortable with standard 'RP'. OK, so I was partially raised by an au-pair girl who happened to speak RP. Is that so bad? Even if I adopted some local English accent, it would only sound right in that one area of England where it is spoken and not in any other. I do not go around judging the way other people speak (whether it's GAE, Cockney, Scouse, Scots, or even Estuary). I do NOT, therefore, see what gives you the right to judge me. I feel that people should use whatever accent they feel most comfortable and most proficient in (although using an intelligible, educated accent wouldn't hurt either). For me, it just happens to be Received Standard English. For you, it may be something else. In none of my messages have I said anything mean or negative about non-RP speakers. I don't see why you should say negative things about me. Personally, I find that RP is the easiest accent to both speak understand - but that's because I was not raised in England. However, when I visit England, I don't force people to speak RP, nor do I comment on their accents. Why then should I be forced to speak or not speak a certain way.

Or is it that some of you feel uncomfortable at the idea of a speaker from a non-English speaking country speaking a more "polished" English than that which is spoken by native speakers (including Britons). Don't use me as a "punching bag" just because you are insecure and have such low self-esteem that. You all seem to think that RP should be forbidden from being spoken by anyone who doesn't come from a rich, snobby, English family. I am sorry that you feel that RP is so posh and snobby but at this point I really don't give a fuck what any of you think. You all try to sound so educated, but in reality you're all just a bunch of idiots.
Candy   Sat Nov 05, 2005 7:00 am GMT
<<Yes, I think "septic tank" is an interesting example of rhyming slang which occurs in certain varieties of UK British. We really don't have rhyming slang here (at least not on a widespread level--I've certainly never heard or used it as far as I'm aware) so it's interesting to see the forms people come up with. >>

Two examples of rhyming slang in fairly common use: 'Let's have a butcher's' = butcher's hook, ie look; 'my china' = china plate = mate = friend.
Candy   Sat Nov 05, 2005 7:05 am GMT
Guest57
I don't object to RP speakers in the least. What I DO object to is being told that this is the 'best' or 'right' way to speak or the only way to sound educated, especially by people not even from the UK.
If you have so many problems when you visit the UK just don't go for God's sake!! But really, many millions of people manage it every year without this constant worry about their accent!
Meh   Sat Nov 05, 2005 8:25 am GMT
Meh, rhyming slang is ghey.
Kirk   Sat Nov 05, 2005 8:40 am GMT
<<Two examples of rhyming slang in fairly common use: 'Let's have a butcher's' = butcher's hook, ie look; 'my china' = china plate = mate = friend.>>

Wow, I never would've guessed those without an explanation as you have to make several connections for each one. Very interesting, Candy, thanks :)
Candy   Sat Nov 05, 2005 8:44 am GMT
<<Wow, I never would've guessed those without an explanation as you have to make several connections for each one. Very interesting, Candy, thanks :) >>

You're welcome! :)
I'll try to think of more. A personal favourite is 'to blow a raspberry' (raspberry tart: fart) and there's also 'on the dog' (dog and bone: phone) and 'my trouble' (trouble and strife: wife). Some of them get really complicated as there are so many connections!
Kirk   Sat Nov 05, 2005 8:51 am GMT
<<You're welcome! :)
I'll try to think of more. A personal favourite is 'to blow a raspberry' (raspberry tart: fart) and there's also 'on the dog' (dog and bone: phone) and 'my trouble' (trouble and strife: wife). Some of them get really complicated as there are so many connections!>>

Yeah, examples like those make "septic tank" seem like a much simpler one, even, since at least "tank" rhymes and it's said. "My trouble" strikes me as particulary humorous. If I'd heard that in reference to a wife I probably would've thought the person was being more literal, but I guess it carries literal and the more abstract rhyming connections at once :)
Uriel   Sat Nov 05, 2005 8:52 am GMT
Well, there you go, Kirk: we use raspberry in a similar way (although we also call it a Bronx cheer). I believe "put up your dukes" is one of the other few surviving examples in American usage.
Candy   Sat Nov 05, 2005 8:53 am GMT
<<I guess it carries literal and the more abstract rhyming connections at once :) >>

You've got that right! :)

Kirk, if you're interested in this, you should take a look at:

http://www.cockneyrhymingslang.co.uk/
Kenna D   Sat Nov 05, 2005 9:50 pm GMT
I've heard most British people don't like RP, but they do like General American Accent. It's sounds warmer and friendlier than RP, they say.
Rick Johnson   Sat Nov 05, 2005 10:18 pm GMT
<<I've heard most British people don't like RP, but they do like General American Accent. It's sounds warmer and friendlier than RP, they say.>>

We seem to keep covering the same ground on this forum.

General American is by definition a general accent, which while it changes a little from area to area does not have any really unusual features found in local accents. Many British people (including myself) also speak in what might be classified as a general accent; RP, however, is not a general, middle ground accent, but a rather odd sounding accent with South Eastern vowel sounds. The closest Americans have is the Boston Brahmin accent which, like RP, is an affected accent which is rarely heard outside of the region.

Personally I like most American accents with the exception of Brooklyn and unsurprisingly Boston Brahmin.
Guest57   Sun Nov 06, 2005 5:54 am GMT
Actually, I've never had ANY problems whatsoever in the UK. I usually just walk around a lot, ride trains and buses, and basically talk very little. Apart from museum staff and the occasional taxi driver or waiter or store clerk (many in the latter two categories being foreign, anyway), I don't really get a chance to interact with that many people. The few people I have spoken with have all been extremely friendly and have found me very charming. This also applies to English tourists I've met abroad while traveling and even in my own country.

However, I do tend to frequent the nicer neighbourhoods in London and I tend to talk as little as possible when visiting neighbourhoods which are not 'posh' (although I've never gone into any slums). I've even heard RP (or something very near it) spoken at an Indian restaurant in High Barnet (in north London). (The people in question were not sitting that close for me to really be 100% sure). Also, most of English tourists I tend to meet (other than in Ibiza) are on the cultured side. This may have to do with the type of places I choose to visit. Also, store clerks and museum staff have to be courteous and even if they are bothered by RP they must not show it. (Incidentally, most guards in London museums and clothing store clerks do speak Cockney.)

The question is is this : What if I should happen to find myself spending an extensive amount of time in the UK and having to conduct business and tend to to both practical and social affairs outside of the nicer neighbourhoods and the major tourist attractions? Politely asking for directions in Hamstead Heath or asking where a certain painting is in the National Gallery is not the same as having to conduct business in a supermarket in, say, Upminster or Cockfosters (or in any average neighbourhood).

For the record, I am an avid Anglophile (except for those aspects of British culture which are bad - but that's the case with any country). I know that's kind of like saying "Everything you've heard is true - except for those parts which are false", but I really don't mean it that way.
Pete   Sun Nov 06, 2005 6:27 am GMT
<<Or is it that some of you feel uncomfortable at the idea of a speaker from a non-English speaking country speaking a more "polished" English than that which is spoken by native speakers (including Britons). Don't use me as a "punching bag" just because you are insecure and have such low self-esteem that. You all seem to think that RP should be forbidden from being spoken by anyone who doesn't come from a rich, snobby, English family. I am sorry that you feel that RP is so posh and snobby but at this point I really don't give a fuck what any of you think. You all try to sound so educated, but in reality you're all just a bunch of idiots.>>

Guest57, I totally agree with this. I think, Brits are so used to hear English spoken in so many ways. And they don't really like hearing a non-native speaker speaking a type of English which is regarded to be the typical "British Accent". For the rest of the people also study English with RP recordings and stuff like that, so if they don't get a good RP English, they will be able to notice when someone speaks this "accent" (which is not an accent in fact). So it's very common to receive compliments from other non-native speakers (and unfortunately, they also think of RP as a beautiful way of speaking, and worse, as the typical British accent), these guys will always say things like, "you speak like a British person", "your English is fantastic, were you in England?", or worst of all: "I love your accent, are you ENGLISH?.

When a Brit hears that (are you English?). They will hate you deeply, and they will dislike the person which said this as well. Since they are the native speakers, they can quickly identify a non-native Speaker and I think they don't like a guy who can cheat other people on making them believe that he is British. And they also dislike the fact that you are considered a Brit by other people just because you speak RP, an accent which nobody really speaks really in England (well quite a few people, to be honest).

Some even are so close-minded (Americans or British). That they will even tell you, "Er, you know. I think you should not try to speak that accent, which is not natural at all. You should speak with your native accent, stick to your own culture and identity for Gof sakes!" (think of this said with a normal English accent, not posh, usings some glottal stops and stuff).

That has happened to me so many times, And I always reply:
"I know who I am, I will never lose my own culture. But had I a strong spanish accent, nobody will be able to understand what I'm saying. If you learnt Japanese wouldn't you like to learn a Tokyo accent? (even if not even people from Tokyo speak the official Tokyo accent, but anyway). I do not use this accent to sound cool, neither to cheat other foreigners on thinking I'm British, I just speak this way so people can easily understand my English. And (said in a very posh, elegant, Queen's English ) I shall not ever change my way of speaking, just to please thee."

That's my opinion.

P.S.:
I know that the Queen speaks Queen's English no longer, so do not make unnecessary comments about it.
And when I write with brackets (posh English) or stuff it's just a method to show you aproximately how it would sound. So for thos phonetics Champions, please don't say anything about that, I'm not an expert in Phonetics, and I don't pretend to be one either.