Do English teachers in England speak RP? Should they?

Still, I would think that a foreigner would be expected to learn more of a "neutral" accent than a specific "regional" one, especially if he or she was learning English outside of an English-speaking country. I might be wrong, but I would consider RP to be "neutral" British accent, even if it's not actually spoken by a large percetage of people.

Pete, I don't know that "Bullshit" and "Fuck off" are particularly American -- pretty sure they were in the English language long before it came to our shores...

Uriel is absolutely right......the words "bullshit"...(or at least the "shit" bit) and "fuck" are words that belong to old English usage and were all part of common day to day parlance in England from the Middle Ages owards, certainly in Tudor/Stuart times and beyond. Shit meant exactly what it is literally and so was fuck...the means of copulation. Nobody hesitated in using them and certainly Samuul Pepys freely used them in his diaries.

Quoting the 17th century diarist in 1663: "On my way back from the Old Swan Tavern in Fleet Street I did stop for a shit before calling on my Lady Albermarle at her residence at Chancery Court". Obviously he couldn't hold on until he got to her Ladyship but there you go... Knowing his reputation he probably put the other word into practice when he was in the Lady's presence.

I'm not sure whe these words became taboo in polite conversation....knowing the prudishness of the Victorians it was most probably then.

As for being connected with America, maybe "bullshit" IS used far more over there than here in the UK but the word "shit" isn't. Neither is "fuck" used more than here......both S & F and their respective pariticiples freely pepper many casual convos here in the UK.

As for TV from what I have heard and read "bad language" features far more on British TV than on American where there still appears to be a sort of conservative prudishness which amounts to censorship in what may be shown on the networks there. The same goes for sexuality and nudity on TV....seemingly Americans are frequently amazed at what they see or hear on British TV which would not really be permitted back home in America apparently. That was clearly demonstrated by that "boob showing" at Superbowl and the rumpus it caused over there......here it would have been seen as just a good laugh.

Sorry....that was me.

Samuul Pepys was actually Samuel Pepys (pronounced as Peeps).

To add to Damian's comment, Pepys' Diary is quite a good source of rude words and phrases and slang. In the first few pages he mentions the expression "Kiss my arse", other words I noticed were "turd" and "cunt".

<<Still, I would think that a foreigner would be expected to learn more of a "neutral" accent than a specific "regional" one, especially if he or she was learning English outside of an English-speaking country. I might be wrong, but I would consider RP to be "neutral" British accent, even if it's not actually spoken by a large percetage of people. >>

It's actually not, Uriel, whatever non-British people might think: to most of us, it sound a bit 'weird', not neutral at all. Personally I consider it to be a regional accent, as the vast majority of its speakers are in the South-East. I don't think that an accent where 'waistcoat' comes out as 'weskit' is neutral in any way!

<<That was clearly demonstrated by that "boob showing" at Superbowl and the rumpus it caused over there......here it would have been seen as just a good laugh.>>

There seems to be a large cultural gap between the UK and the US goes. It used to be the case that bad language would only be broadcast after 9pm, but now bad language seems to be on daytime TV. I turned on TV last week at 5pm to hear someone say "twat". And who can forget the Live 8 concert where there seemed to be an "fuck" every 10 mins during the afternoon.

It always makes me laugh that on shows like Jerry Springer the US TV networks are happy to show two gay transsexuals dressed in studded leather beating each other up, but if they swear they have to bleep it out because kids could be watching!! Obviously, hearing swearing could leave them psychologically damaged, but queens fighting is a part of everyday life!

<<I don't think that an accent where 'waistcoat' comes out as 'weskit' is neutral in any way>>

Also "really" sounds like "rarely".
"Drawing" is pronounced as "draring"- this sounds odd to most British people. Draring is what kids say.
"room" is often pronounced as "rum"
Also vowels have SE vowel sounds.

People outside of the Britain sometimes call it "BBC" English, but I can't think of anyone on Radio 1 who uses it and that has been the case since it launched in 1967. Someone like John Peel who was on Radio 1 from the start (up until he died last year) certainly didn't have an RP accent, but spoke standard english.

Well, perhaps there is no neutral accent in British English, then. I stand corrected.

Actually, the censorship on US TV only applies to the free public channels. Pay money for cable or satellite, and you can get anything from bad language to hardcore porn.

Twat doesn't make it into too many regular conversations here, and cunt isn't used the way you would use it. And of course, arse is ass...

<<Well, perhaps there is no neutral accent in British English, then. I stand corrected. >>

I didn't mean to sound tetchy, Uriel: sorry if it came out that way! :-) RP is just a total non-issue in the UK - practically nobody considers it standard neutral English, so it's a little stange for me to see that so many others apparently do.

<<cunt isn't used the way you would use it.>>

Tell me more!!

Had this discussion with Frances over on langcafe once, but essentially, we would never (that I've ever heard) use it to refer to a MAN. It would only be used to insult a woman. This seemed logical to me, given its other meaning, but Frances thought that was pretty damn funny!

In Britain and Australia "cunt" is usually reserved as a term of abuse for men. I can't imagine saying it to a woman. In fact, polite men would only use the word when no women are present. I guess in America it's only a noun whereas in Britain it's also a very useful adjective.

Unsure when the word should be used and planning a trip to Britain? Here's a list of people to whom the word is generally applied:

Tony Blair
George Bush
Simon Cowell
The French
People who drive 4 litre "off-road vehicles" to drive their kids to school.
Anybody who looks at you funny when you're drunk.
Anyone who sells goods that fall apart within 24 hours
The Police (though preferably not to their face)

Actually, it seems like "shit" and its cognates generally have similar explicative usages throughout the Germanic languages overall - consider German "Scheiße", for instance.

Yeah, it's not an adjective here.

Hmm, I got through an entire 2 weeks in England without managing to insult anyone. I guess I'd better try harder next time!

<<In Britain and Australia "cunt" is usually reserved as a term of abuse for men. I can't imagine saying it to a woman. In fact, polite men would only use the word when no women are present.>>

Agreed; saying it to a woman would be incredibly insulting. Really, really insulting! And I personally would walk out of the room if any man used it in my hearing (fortunately, no man has ever been that rude)

<<Britain it's also a very useful adjective.>>

Actually, thinking about it, it's always a noun but it just has a different meaning.