Do English teachers in England speak RP? Should they?

Uriel   Sun Nov 06, 2005 4:23 pm GMT
Uh, no, Adam:

Definition
septic tank noun [C]
a large, especially underground, container in which excrement and urine are dissolved by the action of bacteria

(from Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary)

(Maybe YOU are the weakest link ... goodbye!)
Damian in Edinburgh   Sun Nov 06, 2005 4:37 pm GMT
Rick:

I'm not sure that Anthony Hopkins sounds as if he is English! I think he has a fairly distinct Welsh tinge to his (South...from the Valleys) accent. He's a really great actor. As he is tremendously proud of being Welsh I think he would retaliate verbally if he was mistaken for an Englishman...deffo he would. I really don't know, without checking, whether he lives in this country still or, like his compatriot Catherine Zeta Jones, now languishes in the Californian sunshine. I know for sure he has no marital links with Michael Douglas. If he had wouldn't that give them plenty to talk about (in both Welsh and English) down there in the Swansea Valley. :-) Imagine the convos in the pubs.....

Most probably, like most of them in that position, he still retains a home or homes in the old British homeland. I'd like to bet he still has a Welsh bolthole. I know that CZJ does. She has a weird sort of accent now....a mix of Hollywood and the Upper Swansea Valley...and maybe a touch of Kent which is where all the filming for Darling Buds of May was carried out.....and set in HE Bates' books.
Rick Johnson   Sun Nov 06, 2005 5:28 pm GMT
<<I think he has a fairly distinct Welsh tinge to his (South...from the Valleys) accent.>>

Yes I agree with you and it's obvious to any British person with a keen ear, but not necessarily to all people outside of the UK. Admittedly it was the weakest of ones I mentioned.

<<...and maybe a touch of Kent which is where all the filming for Darling Buds of May was carried out.....and set in HE Bates' books.>>

I think she has the most perfick accent!
Uriel   Sun Nov 06, 2005 6:56 pm GMT
If what Catherine Zeta-Jones has IS a Welsh accent, then it IS a strange one -- much easier to understand than the rest of you! I can see why it does sound half-American to you. (She pimps out some cell phone company on US commercials.)
Guest57   Sun Nov 06, 2005 8:56 pm GMT
Dear Guest,

Actually, I once sent an e-mail message to an English bloke who is the webmaster of a very interesting website which I frequently look at. The goal of the message was to congratulate him on creating and maintaning such an interesting and excellent website. I also related to him some of my own wishes and life experiences. It turns out that this chap was a former 'public school' student. Anyway, we e-mailed each other back and forth for a while. Here are some excerpts from three different messages which he wrote to me:

I guess you are a Brit (like
me)........where abouts are you........

Your English is brilliant and very much better than most of the English I
read written by English guys and American, Canadian, Aussies etc!

Your English is brilliant and I would have no idea that you were anything
but English by the way you write.

I cut and pasted the above three remarks from my incoming e-mails. I swear in the name of God that I am NOT making this up. The above three sentences were written by an Englishman who attnded a 'public school' no less. There are obviously some Englishmen out there who are not of the same opinion as you.

By suggesting that my English contains Americanisms, you are probably also referring to the "What the fuck..." phrases. I do not normally use such phrases in my writing nor in my speech. However, I have picked them up from watching all those violent, coarse American movies out there. I must also admit that I have watched too many episodes of "Friends" and "Beverly Hills 90210".

Also, I do pronounce 'clerk', as 'clAk'. In addition, some English people I've met have described my accent as 'posh' or have said 'You sound like a fellow from my home town who went to Eton', and other such things. I probably need to work a little bit more on my British slang and informal expressions but my accent is still very RP sounding.

Nevertheless, your points are well taken and I will ponder them deeply.
Meijse X   Sun Nov 06, 2005 9:07 pm GMT
I like the British accent Kate Winslett used in '"Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless MInd'' It's swell. Is it Devonshire accent?
Guest57   Sun Nov 06, 2005 9:12 pm GMT
57 mentions Upminster and Cockfosters! He obviously enjoys "riding the tube"..especially the District and Piccadilly lines.....all the way to the end!

I had a one week, unlimited, all-zone underground travel card and being that all museums close at 5 or 6 PM and that it doesn't get dark until 10 PM or so in late June and that I had already done quite a bit of walking and breathed quite a lot of car exhaust in and around central London, I wanted to see what greater London is like. I wanted to get a taste of what a regular, average neighbourhood looks like. Only thus could I get a full picture of the city. I was also curious to see what London looks like outside of all the crowded, touristy areas. Is that a crime?

Incidentally, the tube map can be deceiving. High Barnet and Cockfosters are actually not that far from each other and one can very easily walk from one to the other in a little over an hour. (Maybe less?)
Pete   Sun Nov 06, 2005 10:51 pm GMT
>><Do English teachers in England speak RP? Should they?>

Jeez its only a fricking accent not some completely different version of English. English is English!!!

I'm starting a fricking movement against this bloodly stance of *My English is better then yours crap*<<

No, I don't think so. To English, they speak English. The rest speak English with an american accent, or a Canadian accent, etc.

And the level of English of a person is not qualified by the accent (American, English, or crappy Spanish accent) neither by the expressions they use. You say someone speaks English well, when they have a wide knowledge about vocabulary,when they speak fluently, when they have a good level of understanding (but of course you can't blame people who don't understand certain accents, even Brits have problems sometimes; and I do find some American accents quite difficult) and in general if someone (native speaker or not) can understand what you say.

It doesn't matter if you sound like a Rapper from NY, or the Queen's dog's walkers or the crappy English of a Spanish "TORERO"!

Guest57, In general I agree with you, but I think that you are to proud of sounding British when in Britain. And you felt uncomfortable when they said you used plenty of Americanisms (which is absolutly true). But I also think:

Using Americanisms these days is not a sign of sounding American, since the whole world is "Americanising", you know what I mean. In fact even some Brits use American terms. It's not like they say expressions like: bloody, jolly, sodding, or sod off all the time; they tend to use some American expressions, especially young people. Yes, I'm saying that some Brits are losing their identity.

This are my thoughts about this, many Brits (young or old) agree with me (I'm certain about that). Furthermore, I remember an English bloke saying: "Bullshit!" and "F**k off". when he was talking to his friends (including me); young people, not only in England but all over the world, even in Peru (you find people saying: nice, cool, OK, party, bitch, etc)... young people all over the world are receiving the influence of the American films (expressions, ways of behaviour, irony, violence, sex, you know that kind of rubbish)..

And well for anyone who intends to speak RP English, with British expressions and stuff, well listen to the BBC radio; most of the presenters speak RP English. That's what I do and I think it's working.

Remember that RP English used to be known as BBC English. But the BBC ruined this when they started to hire Cockneys, Brummies, and that.

And Candy, thank you for the compliment ;) Greetings from Peru, mates.

GAWD SAVE THE QUEEN!!!
Pete   Sun Nov 06, 2005 10:53 pm GMT
Corrections

It says:

You are to proud

It should say

you are too proud
Kirk   Sun Nov 06, 2005 10:56 pm GMT
Linguistic research has consistently shown that different varieties of English around the world are in fact diverging from each other, not becoming more alike, as some might believe. Of course, different words come and go and different varieties may borrow lexical items from each other but in no way are they becoming more alike or becoming homogenous.
Pete   Sun Nov 06, 2005 11:14 pm GMT
Following American culture is widespread throughout the world, notably in American and Asian 'developing' or 'developed' countries, and indeed Americanism is something that afflicts our world, our embrace of American popular culture clearly evident in our various media. Not only is it limited to American white culture, but it has extended to American black culture as well, with hiphop "wannabes" increasingly ubiquitous on the streets.

I was another "wannabe" rapper here in Peru, I would sing Eminem cacky songs all the time and speak "ghetto" American slang. Which was very impresive for the rest of Peruvians since I'm sort of black so they say, Oh my god!. Literally, they say "Oh my God" it's a common expression here. Will anybody disagree about the "Americanising" of the world??

And well, I thought that speaking like a cabbaged rapper wouldn't help me on improving my English. So, I decided to speak with the original English I learnt, the RP English, so I stick to it. And yes, I'm aware that it's not an English accent, since nobody in England actually uses RP English.
Kirk   Mon Nov 07, 2005 12:16 am GMT
<<since nobody in England actually uses RP English.>>

?? That's quite untrue. RP may be spoken by a very small portion of English people, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

<<Literally, they say "Oh my God" it's a common expression here. Will anybody disagree about the "Americanising" of the world?? >>

That's interesting you mention that particular phrase because sometimes people here (nonnative Spanish speakers like me) will say "(ay) Dios mio" when speaking English. I (and others here) occasionally pepper English with Spanish words and phrases because everyone understands what they mean, at least here. For example, it may just be my group of friends, but it's not uncommon for us to say things like "hey, wanna go to the store and get some vino?" However, having lexical borrowings is perfectly natural and expected in human language and since it's always been happening, it's not really threatening any languages since no language is and never has been "pure" anyway.

Language exchange can and does go both ways.
Candy   Mon Nov 07, 2005 9:20 am GMT
<<?? That's quite untrue. RP may be spoken by a very small portion of English people, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. >>

RP is spoken by 3% of the English population, as far as I've heard.
Kirk   Mon Nov 07, 2005 9:29 am GMT
<<RP is spoken by 3% of the English population, as far as I've heard.>>

Yes that's about what I've heard, too. It's certainly not a lot but to say no one speaks RP would definitely not be true.
Candy   Mon Nov 07, 2005 9:54 am GMT
<<It's certainly not a lot but to say no one speaks RP would definitely not be true. >>

It's definitely spoken by some people (mostly in the SE of England), but what annoys me is when some posters here (all non-British) claim that a variety of English not used by 97% of the English population is some kind of 'standard'!