Are some Scottish and Irish accents really inintelligeble?

Terry   Sat Dec 10, 2005 3:32 am GMT
<<Similarly on a local level, one common complaint, amongst many, about TV shows and movies that have been set here in Wisconsin is that they have not been in dialect, and thus the people in them don't actually sound as if they are from here, and by extension, as if they have any actual connection to here. Consequently, things here just become yet another setting, as said dialect is key portion of the actual local identity. >>

I've noticed this trend in movies and TV shows about Boston, too, Travis.

Some older movies make us all sound very Boston Brahmin while the latest make us sound, how can I put this delicately, like people who've had a less than perfect education.

Most of us don't sound like either, not haughty (Brahmin) or like "cleaned-up Brooklyn," as some people say. Although there is a trend amongst some people from Boston to try to immitate the lastest movie accents, for better and mostly for worse.
Kodos   Sat Dec 10, 2005 9:58 pm GMT
Ha-ha-ha. Look at all those earthlings arguing over trivialities and calling each other names. Little do they know that they earth will soon be blown to smitherines by a huge and powerful laser beam fired from an alien spaceship - just like that planet which was blown up in that "Star Wars" movie.
Travis   Sun Dec 11, 2005 1:59 am GMT
Things are sort of different with things like TV shows and movies here, as it's not that some stereotypical accent is used, but rather the accent used is not one that is at all like those actually natively spoken in Wisconsin. For example, the characters in That 70's Show sound as if they're from California.
Zsefvgyhnjik   Sun Dec 11, 2005 6:28 am GMT
Travis, don't be stupid! Many young, white, middle class people sound like they're "from California". This was true even in the 1970's. Are you saying that only people from California speak General American English? (That is pretty much what most of the characters on "That 70's Show" use). Even the Bush girls (whose father has a Texas accent) sound no different from the girls on the O.C. or on Beverly Hills, 90210.

Most white, native born, Americans today speak GAE (except for guidos, hillbillies, and certain old people who grew up before the age of mass media, mass communications, high-speed travel, and mass education).

I'm sure Wisconsin has its fair share of GAE speakers. most Nortrhern Midwest speakers do not sound like the characters in the movie "Fargo" just like most white kids in Boston or elsewhere in Massachusetts do not speak with that stupid accent used by Ben Affleck and Matt damon in "Good Will Hunting". Almost all American actors speak GAE in "real life". (This is quite the reverse of the situation in England where just about the ONLY people who speak RP are actors).
Travis   Sun Dec 11, 2005 6:41 am GMT
>>Travis, don't be stupid! Many young, white, middle class people sound like they're "from California". This was true even in the 1970's. Are you saying that only people from California speak General American English? (That is pretty much what most of the characters on "That 70's Show" use). Even the Bush girls (whose father has a Texas accent) sound no different from the girls on the O.C. or on Beverly Hills, 90210.<<

You do understand that the language spoken in California is not just some "neutral" generic GAE, do you? You do understand that they have the CVS, whereas up here the NCVS is present instead (and is in the opposite direction of the CVS)? You do understand that most of the speech here is cot-caught unmerged, whereas that in most of California today is cot-caught merged? You have heard of something called Canadian Raising, have you? And that is not to even mention some of the quirkier dialect features present in, say, the Milwaukee area, which I am familiar with, and which you probably are not. So unless you live here to begin with AND are familiar with the dialect features present here overall, OR you have done a detailed survey on dialect features which are present here, do not even try arguing with me about this one.

>>Most white, native born, Americans today speak GAE (except for guidos, hillbillies, and certain old people who grew up before the age of mass media, mass communications, high-speed travel, and mass education).<<

Do you have any fucking awareness of the dialect native to the are which I am from, and which pretty much most of the white population which is native to there speak? If you do, please tell me now, or else please stop spewing empty generalizations based on popular notions of language which have little actual basis in reality like you are above.

>>I'm sure Wisconsin has its fair share of GAE speakers. most Nortrhern Midwest speakers do not sound like the characters in the movie "Fargo" just like most white kids in Boston or elsewhere in Massachusetts do not speak with that stupid accent used by Ben Affleck and Matt damon in "Good Will Hunting". Almost all American actors speak GAE in "real life". (This is quite the reverse of the situation in England where just about the ONLY people who speak RP are actors).<<

"I'm sure Wisconsin ...". Yes, you're just basing things on your own preconceived notions alright. Now shut up, and please stay so until you show me actual data which is methodologically valid that supports your ideas.
james brittle   Tue Jan 24, 2006 12:05 pm GMT
hawl by the way am fae glesag (glasgow for you's daft english!) n a hink we huv the best accent in the whole ae britian, you's english huv goat a check tae tok btw your accents ir mare harder tae understoan coz ya accents ir shit , we gleswegians ir much better than you's daft english in you's ir just jealous ae us scots ya fucking english pricks, get tae fuck england yees ir hated and we ir rated so FUCK OFF!!!! n stoap trying tae bring us scots doon coz you's huvnae got a great nd loved reputation nd nature nd culture like us scots so quit bein jealous ya fannys!! n get ya shity accents tae fuck ya bunch ae english fucks, we ir nuttin likes you's n we wid b so embaressed if we wir we wid b hated if wir like you's but GLADY we're no, so if yi canny understoan this ya english dicks then listen tae ur accents they ir WORST!!! by the way, so stoap getting jealous ya english fucks, FOREVER SCOTLAND AND PROUD!!!!!!!!
Guest   Wed Jan 25, 2006 9:08 pm GMT
"FOREVER SCOTLAND AND PROUD!!!!!!!! "
Couldn't agree more, SNP.
Zero   Sun Jan 29, 2006 3:10 am GMT
Australian!!!

I understand Scottish and Irish perfectly
Uriel   Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:01 am GMT
<<Even the Bush girls (whose father has a Texas accent) sound no different from the girls on the O.C. or on Beverly Hills, 90210. >>

Well, that "Texas accent" is hardly the one GB started out with, since he came from a rich New England family and went to Ivy League schools. The way he talks now is little more than an affectation meant to further his long political career in the Lone Star State. So I wouldn't be too surprised if it has had little impact on how his daughters sound (although I confess that I don't think I've ever actually heard them say anything, and I *try* never to listen to their father, either... that's what remotes are for!)

If all of the little idiosyncracies Kirk has been divulging about his speech patterns are true -- and why would he lie? :) -- his California accent is somewhat different than mine, and I'm pretty non-regional. Nor have I heard certain of those features in anyone else, and I've lived in or frequently visited several different cultural regions of the US (East Coast, New England, the South, the Southwest, and the West Coast).
Damian in Edinburgh   Sun Jan 29, 2006 8:10 am GMT
***hawl by the way am fae glesag***

Jist as I suspected.....are ye too bevvied to spell your own city name richt?
Adam   Sun Jan 29, 2006 11:13 am GMT
"Couldn't agree more, SNP. "

SNP - the Scottish equivalent of the BNP.
Guest   Sun Jan 29, 2006 11:51 am GMT
"SNP - the Scottish equivalent of the BNP."
Eh, no they're not.
Travis   Sun Jan 29, 2006 12:00 pm GMT
>>SNP - the Scottish equivalent of the BNP.<<

Well, not really, since they are more like Social Democrats than the semi-closet fascists which make up the BNP (and many other similar parties in Europe, such as Vlaams Belang and the NDP), their Scottish nationalism (which seems to have more in common with things like Catalan and Welsh nationalism than things like English nationalism) aside.
Travis   Sun Jan 29, 2006 12:01 pm GMT
Ack, that should be "and the NPD" above.
JP Tonner   Wed Feb 08, 2006 8:12 am GMT
Anyway

I teach English in China to employees of a large international company. I recently had my hours cut because the accent I talk with is (toned down) West of Scotland.

The fallacy is the belief in a standard English similar to that of putonghua (mandarin). A tonal based language like Chinese can support the idea of a correct way to speak, whereas a standard English is near impossible since there are no neutral ways to produce sounds of varying tone, rhythm or pace.

Solutions?

Use your intelligence to slow down when talking to non-natives or people from a different area. Exposure is another issue: since I can understand almost any native dialect of English (Cork/York/Oz/Kiwi/Barrhead) I can only summise it`s because my ear is `cultured` . I know it would be diificult for River City to be broadcast over the world but perhaps our global culture is too uniform.

Another solution (mainly for the Scotltish accent problem) is to differentiate Scots (Lallans) and English, particularly at school. Don:t know about the rest of you but I was always told Scots words were slang, only later finding out they are at least a dialect, or arguably a different language.

Ken whit ah mean, like?

Gie us ur ain leid ya knob jockies!