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british or american english?
<<Besides, it was from the West Country.....Plymouth.....that the Pilgrim Fathers first set sail in Mayflower, carrying all that rhoticism over to you guys ....and you sort of carried on with it big time. >>
What can I say, Damian? It just caught on! ;)
"What can I say, Damian? It just caught on"
Well, there you go; not a bad theory at that, but what about the As? No one in the UK or Ireland produces the shortish A North Americans use in "dance", or the different shortish A they pronounce in "last", although some in UK/IRE certainly use an extremely short A for both words and similar. Interestingly, some other English speakers (almost all of us Australians for example) pronounce "dance", "chance", "prance" in the same way as Americans, yet without exception use a broad A (ah) in "last", "fast", "passed" as per RP. Any theories as to where the North American short As came from, or Australians have adopted one but not the other?
I'm glad it did catch on with you lot, Uriel......I find it quite appealing. I'd much rather have American rhoticism than stuffy English upper class strangulated plum in mouthism in which the letter R is totally ignored - not that you hear much of that accent now - it's (see, I got it right this time!) now mostly confined to those hilarious old b&w movies. :-)
Thommo: With regard to the North American A, it is a wee bit different from the short, flat A in the Northern English accents. It seems as if the Americans pronounce it with the mouth more closed, whereas the Northern English have the mouth open wider.
The flat A which is [{] in X-sampa or [æ] in IPA is still present in "dance" for some British dialects today. In some Irish dialects it's pronounced virtually the same as that in North America.
The flat A was originally present in "last", "fast", "passed" in most of England a few centuries ago, until the trap-bath split came about in Southern England which spread to other dialects including RP. Because the split arose around the 18th century in Britain, English in North America remained unaffected by the split (bar a few exceptions). You can read about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonological_history_of_English_short_A
I'm willing to bet that Uriel, Candy, and Tiffany are also extremely beautiful.
With regard to <<I'm glad it did catch on with you lot, Uriel......I find it quite appealing. I'd much rather have American rhoticism than stuffy English upper class strangulated plum in mouthism in which the letter R is totally ignored - not that you hear much of that accent now - it's (see, I got it right this time!) now mostly confined to those hilarious old b&w movies. :-)>> Although I CAN pull-off a decent GAE accent, the accent you described above pretty much describes the way I talk (for better or for worse). Incidentally the 'r' is NOT ignored. Upper-RP has a VERY strong pre-vocalic and intervocalic 'r', almost but not quite rolled. It's only in certain environments (final 'r' and 'r' + consonant) where it's weaker than in GAE but even there it's not completely ignored. It really depends on the speaker. Some say "watuh" while others say "watah", the latter being more common in Cockney or in New Yorkese (with the 't' tapped. In true RP, you can tell there is an 'r' even in places where it's "dropped". This is something which is much easier to demonstrate orally than to describe in written form. I see rhoticity as a spectrum of different shades with full rhoticity at one end and utter lack of it in the other, with many pronunciations falling somewhere in between rather than as a balck and white issue. I believe that there are different degrees of rhoticity (Irish is extremely rhotic, GAE is mostly rhotic, RP is pretty non-rhotic and Cockney, New Yorkese, and some New England accents are extremely non-rhotic). Thus the RP pronunciation of "car" is NOT the same as the Boston pronunciation of "car" even though both are non-rhotic. The Irish and GAE pronunciations of this word, while both rhotic, also vary somewhat. I could be wrong about all this but I rather think that there is at least some creedence to what I say. Has anyone else noticed this rhoticity spectrum?
All right, forget those British chicks, just come to New Mexico, already! ;)
Yes, you are quite right about there being a spectrum of rhoticity. While we GAE speakers are known for our R's, I have hears Irish and Scots R's that blow ours right out of the water. <<In true RP, you can tell there is an 'r' even in places where it's "dropped". >> I wonder if a listener would "know" that there was supposed to be an R in certain non-rhotically pronounced words unless thay already had prior knowledge of the written form? Perhaps you are simply aware of it because you know English. But would someone who did not speak English have any idea?
You sound like a real smoothie, Jason and already you seem to have captured those female hearts......
The pronunciation of the letter R in English is such a variable thing and as you say, it has great shades of difference from one accent to another. Here in Scotland you can't call it rhotic....we merely trill away at it but at least we ensure it's not ignored! (It's interesting that the word "rhotic" is derived from the Greek alphabetic word "rho"). I think I understand all the points raised in your last post. I've hardly any experience of the posh upper class English English accent I described as we don't go in for it up here at all. It's nearly always a Southern English thing where certain types say "daaahhhling" for darling. As I say, I've heard it mostly in those oldie films, and I really don't think many people speak like that at all nowadays, but unless I went to live down in Surrey or Sussex or somewhere down that way, I couldn't say for certain. Anyway, if you yourself speak a wee bit like that then you would probably stand a much better chance of passing through interviews than the inarticulate mumbling super Estuary guys (and lassies) the prospective employers were whingeing about and which I mentioned in an earlier post of mine.
<<I'm willing to bet that Uriel, Candy, and Tiffany are also extremely beautiful. >>
Hmm. You know, Jason, why not give New Mexico a miss? Düsseldorf is really nice this time of year! (Actually it isn't, but we can pretend...:)
Give New Mexico a miss. The inhabitants of the Southern US states are inbred. You don't want a child with 3 eyes and four legs.
>>Give New Mexico a miss. The inhabitants of the Southern US states are inbred. You don't want a child with 3 eyes and four legs.<<
Inbreeding or not, just so you know, New Mexico is *not* part of the South. Yes, it might be in the geographically southern half of the US, but that does not actually mean that it is Southern per se at all.
"Southern" stops in the mid-Texas, Adam. The Southwest is totally different.
>>as a filipino, i can say that british english is easier to understand than the americans.
As a non-Filipino, so can I.
One version of British English is the much quoted ESTUARY ENGLISH....widespread in its home base of the South East of England (but spreading).
Jordan is an English model with outstanding features (both of them... and both magnificently enhanced). She recently married Peter Andre (an Aussie bloke) in an all pink and white fluffy fluffy no expense spared mega mega mega £s wedding rivalling that of Elton and David's. http://www.boreme.com/boreme/funny-2005/jordan-andre-p1.php Jordan (aka Katie Price from Hampshire) is 101% Estuaryspeaking, and one of today's UK newspapers has produced a glossary of some of the terms Jordan uses in her every Estuaryspeak. This is to help people when they read her autobiography, and who may not be familar with Estuaryspeak. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2006/02/18/do1806.xml To assis further, here is a translation of the terms listed, from Estuary to English: Avvy end verday: At the end of the day. (This is a term frequently used in the UK). Awe time fay vrid: All time favourite Cuddaw: Cuddle Dan twurf: Down to earth Darns roo teen: Dance routine Dog you men tree: Documentary E chaw r tout: Eat your heart out (that means get jealous) Eggs tensions: Extensions (the hair type in this case) Fair retail: Fairy tale (as in weddings) Faithfaw: Faithful (as if......!) Fangsa lot: Cheers! (as in thanks a lot) Fawlinadma top: Falling out of my top (as in US superbowl) Feeyawz so ride: Feels so right Few min: Fuming! (as in I'm doing my nut) Hairbrush: To improve a photograph (just drop the h) Ick sperry mint: Experiment Inib id-id sek shlee: Inhibited sexually Force: False In harnced: Enhanced Kitov: Kit off (as in get your kit off - strip off all clothing) Kleev itch: Cleavage (as in Jordan) Libray did atchooed: Liberated attitude Lye flong dree miz: As in "my lifelong dream is......" Myrrh chewer: Mature Nurway!: No way! (that means no...period!) Natraw look: Natural look (ie unenhanced) Nuff ink taggy: Nothing tacky (ie keep it clean) Oughta buy ogra fee: Autobiography Pash nit: Passionate Phwoar!: phwoar!!!! (as in phwoar!!!!) Piztazza fard: Excessively pissed Roow nin: Ruining Rotig voytch of dis guvry: Erotic voyage of discovery Snotlike: As in "that's not like I'm going out wiv ya, izzit?" Sore sea: Saucy (as in phwoar!!!) Sore tit: Sort it! (as in get yourself sorted out) Stay dove dee yar: State of the art (as in top notch) Sick cess: Success Suttaw: Subtle Tastefaw: Tasteful Tid zowt: (As in Janet Jackson ie tits out) Turmee yon: Turn me on Verlashun ship: Our relationship Whale fit: Well fit (as in phwoar!!!) Whirl igloo siff: World exclusive Wreck ordeal: Record deal Yoob itch (You know what that means....) You sure purse end itch: Usual percentage ============================================== You'll se that not only is the letter T largely redundant in Estuary, so is the letter L. |