made up languages

die Wahrheit   Wed Aug 29, 2007 10:35 pm GMT
a.p.a.m wrote:

"...What the hell is Elvish, Quenya, or Lobjan? They're not real languages. Please, give me a break. I'm tired of hearing about these alleged "languages". They're nothing but made up crap..."

Brennus wrote:

"...I agree with you regarding Elvish and Quenya. Any buffoon could come up with something like these by pirating bits and pieces of a language most people don't recognize like Finnish or Albanian..."


I have to disagree with these statements. It is true that most constructed languages are not very developed, or even really realistic. However, some constructed languages are.

Quenya is an extremely developed language, and ...any buffoon could not do this. Yes, it's true that the language was created for Tolkien's work...but from your comments, I do not think you have taken a very serious look at the language or Tolkien. Quenya is not some language that some guy made up one night and thought it sounded good.

Tolkien was a noted and respected linguist who spent most of his life developing this language. In fact, he developed it with the help of several linguists. Now it is true that he did lean on Finnish for it's initial development, but it bears as much similarity to Finnish as Spanish does Latin.

Another constructed language that fits into this category is "Klingon" by Marc Orkand. Again we are dealing with another respected linguist who has spent his entire life developing his language. Both of these languages could honestly be real languages. They have everything that other languages do. They have vocabulary, grammar, and history.

One of my favorite constructed languages that I have come across was a creation of a historical "what if."

I have often wondered what would have happened if Rome ever conquered and stayed in Ireland and the UK...I am glad to see that I am not the only person. It is a shame this person stopped, I would love to have seen where they went with this.

Geoff Eddy and Andrew Smith not only wondered this also, but they created artificial languages that mix Latin, Irish, and Welsh.

Latin/ Irish is called Breathanach: (Geoff Eddy)

http://www.cix.co.uk/~morven/lang/breath.html

Latin/Welsh is called Brithenig: (Andrew Smith)
die Wahrheit   Wed Aug 29, 2007 10:38 pm GMT
Sorry the second link isn't showing.

Latin/ Irish is called Breathanach: (Geoff Eddy)

http://www.cix.co.uk/~morven/lang/breath.html

Latin/Welsh is called Brithenig: (Andrew Smith)

http://hobbit.griffler.co.nz/introduction.html
Guest   Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:32 pm GMT
It is never good style to be ignorant, and if someone doesn't know about a topic, he shouldn't judge or write insulting comments about that topic.

Go google ''conlang'' or ''conlanging'' or visit conlanging related sites, and you will see that conlanging is an art.

Even if a conlang isn't always fully developed, it serves some important tasks: It can help understand linguistics, and other languages, natlangs or conlangs, it can try some new features (very unlikely) or try how a certain feature works in the context of others. It can be meant to test hypothesis like Loglan or Loiban, it can serve in reasearch in automatic language translation, and, most important, it is fun for a many of people, see www.langmaker.com, http://www.zompist.com/kit.html, http://dedalvs.free.fr/notes/lcc1.php, especially the conlang manifesto.
I never read that Tolkin needed some help form other linguists to develop his languages. In fact, many people are interested in his languages and so started to develop extensions to that languages on the base of Tolkins work. If a language sounds good or not totally depends on your own tast, so this can't be considered as a reason to banish conlangs or even natlangs.
die Wahrheit   Thu Aug 30, 2007 9:45 pm GMT
Hmmm...

I think you misunderstood what I meant. I did not say "he needed help," I said "he developed it with the help of several linguists." What I mean is that while he was creating Quenya he would show his work to other linguists and improved his work based off their opinions about his language.

The creation of a constructed languages is a form of art, and it is a hobby enjoyed by people across the globe.

As for Tolkien, there are a couple myths about the creation of his languages. Some people believe that it was a hobby and nothing more. Some people believe that it was something he created to make the stories he told to his family more real. Some people believe that he wanted to prove that you could create an entire culture based off one's language. Personally, I think it is like most things in life...some combination of all of these factors. Not even Tolkien's family has been able to answer this question with certainty.

I would never banish or talk bad about anyone's work. I will admit that there are some that need a lot of fine tuning and adjusting...but that does not make them bad.

Where Quenya and Klingon succeed that so many constructed languages fail is cultural connection and history. People do a fantastic job creating the grammar and vocabulary details, but there is more to language than just these two factors...

Quenya is not just a language; it is the language of the Elves. It has a very detailed history that not only says where it came from, but it also shows how it has developed into its current form. It illustrates their speech, poetry, writing, and story...now I know it is easy to see the words Elf or Elves and say this can't be taken seriously...but replace this word with nationality you want and Quenya suddenly shares the same relationship with this culture as does the natural language currently being spoken by this nationality.
Chin- Mei-ling   Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:57 pm GMT
I made a language based on korean, japanese, chinese, and polish! isn't that cool? to say hello is liyisasanga (LEE-YEE- SUH-SANG-AH)
Aria   Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:29 pm GMT
Do you know any made-up languages? Like the ones you speak to keep things private? Like Pig-Latin?
Guest   Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:08 am GMT
<< but replace this word with nationality you want and Quenya suddenly shares the same relationship with this culture as does the natural language currently being spoken by this nationality. >>

Except that this ''culture'' is also fictional and exists only on paper and in on the screen. These fictional languages are cool in their own context, such as movies, shows or books. But anyone who takes learning Elf or Klingon seriously has too much time on their hands and is too obsessed with escapism.
JailenMackenzieKianaBFF   Wed Nov 14, 2007 12:59 am GMT
You're forgetting Pig Latin!

Pig Latin is a twist of English for people who want to be silly, or for kids who don't want their parents to know what they're talking about. There are different ways in which people speak pig Latin. I only know a few ways. Here are the ways I have learned:
For words which begin with a single consonant take the consonant off the front of the word and add it to the end of the word. Then add ay after the consonant. Here are some examples:

cat = atcay
dog = ogday
simply = implysay
noise = oisnay
For words which began with double or multiple consonants take the group of consonants off the front of the word and add them to the end, adding ay at the very end of the word. Here are some examples:

scratch = atchscray
thick = ickthay
flight = ightflay
grime = imegray

For words that begin with a vowel, just add yay at the end. For example:

is = isyay
apple =appleyay
under = underyay
octopus = octopusyay



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is another dialect for words that begin with a vowel. First, add a y at the beginning of the word. If the word ends in a vowel, add yay at the end. For example:

extra = yextrayay
amuse = yamuseyay
orange = yorangeyay
echo = yechoyay
If the word ends in a consonent add y at the beginning of the word, and ay at the end of the word. For examle:
answer = yansweray
otter = yotteray
excellent = yexcellentay
interest = yinterestay

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is another variation of words that begin with a vowel and end in a consonant:
Add ay at the end. Examples:
after = afteray
instinct = instinctay
olives = olivesay
elect = electay

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is another dialect for both words that begin with consonants and words that begin with vowels.
If the word begins with a consonant, take the consonant(s) before the first vowel and put them at the end of the word, adding a at the end.For example:
crimson = imsoncra
yellow = ellowya
hi = iha
If the word begins with a vowel just add a at the end. For example:
alaska = Alaskaa
ever = evera
and = anda
igloo = iglooa
die Wahrheit   Wed Nov 14, 2007 4:09 am GMT
Guest Wrote:

<<Except that this ''culture'' is also fictional and exists only on paper and in on the screen. These fictional languages are cool in their own context, such as movies, shows or books. But anyone who takes learning Elf or Klingon seriously has too much time on their hands and is too obsessed with escapism.>>

Escapism - n. The tendency to escape from daily reality or routine by indulging in daydreaming, fantasy, or entertainment.


I don't know if you can say that people who learn Quenya or Klingon have too much time on their hands...or...trying to escape reality. If this were true, then using this line of logic, anyone who learns Latin would also fall into this category.

The culture has been gone for centuries, and the language only exists in movies and books now.

Are you honestly willing to say that anyone learning Latin has too much time on their hands and are just trying to escape reality by indulging in fantasy? And I say fantasy because isn't the thought of speaking Latin with a citizen of the Roman Empire just as imaginary as the thought of speaking Quenya with an Elf?

For anyone here who thinks that Quenya or Klingon are not real languages...I challenge you here to prove it. No one is saying that they did not come from fictional sources, but that doesn't make these languages any less real. They meet every single requirement for being a language, and in some cases, are designed better than some naturally created languages.